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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg I can't believe it

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ten years ago today this shows being

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broadcast on the 28th of February 2016

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back in 2006

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a curious podcast debuted called the

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para cast and our first guests with Jim

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Mosely and Brad Steiger now in case some

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of you don't recall the story

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rats tiger named this show we were going

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to call para cast world and Brad said

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why just call it the power cast in our

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original co-hosts David and I said okay

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we'll do that

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now we wanted to have Brad here for the

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10th anniversary show Brad took a nasty

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fall in snow-covered ice-covered Iowa so

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we got pretty badly bruised and he

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begged off so we just had to get well

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wish to Brad Steiger but we do have

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surprises for you we have Greg Bishop of

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course it was one of our guest co-hosts

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between the time we had our first

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co-host and Chris joined us we also have

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a couple of surprises and I'm not going

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to list them in name order we have of

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course one of our friendly forum

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moderators who's heard the show since

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the beginning gags Makai hi GOx

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hi there gene it's an honor to be here

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for the 10th anniversary show and I'm

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looking forward to another 10 years it's

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the best show on I will do it from the

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wheelchair with the walker and we also

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have another surprise guest who hasn't

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been on the power cast for a while but

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we hope that's going to change

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Paul Kimball welcome back hi Jane hi

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Greg hi Chris and hi gods from New

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Scotland to Scotland

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hey hi always good to hear a Scottish

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accent thank you l was good to hear you

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too one of the things I always liked and

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we had Paul on the show is he would say

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things that were so memorable he wanted

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to include them

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in your demo reel and one of the most

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interesting statements you made on the

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power cast Paul is when you talked about

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the Aztec UFO case and compared it to

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Dracula where you stick a stake in it

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and it always comes back to life you

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remember that I do and I wish I could

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take credit for that

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I can take credit for propagating it but

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I can't remember the old UFO updates

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list with Cheryl Bruce Knapp used to run

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which is it on now somebody on that list

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many years ago when I was actually

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making a film about the Aztec case

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referred to it I believe as ufology

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Strack EULA and I honestly can't

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remember who that was and nobody nobody

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sort of cared it was a kind of a random

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poster I it wasn't one of the regulars I

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don't think but I thought well that's

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basically what Aztec is so I kind of

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took it and ran with it but as Mac

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Tony's used to say the crypto

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terrestrials was not something he came

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up with as a term I'm happy to say that

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I only propagate the ufology Dracula

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phrase I didn't actually come up with it

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now it's kind of strange in ages me but

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when you first referred to it that way

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you following a G's Dracula you know

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when I thought about I thought about a

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movie from 1944

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that's before my time I know some of you

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think I'm as old as the hills

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called house of Frankenstein and John

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Carradine played Dracula you know this

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is a time where Bela Lugosi was

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restricted to B movies and he was drug

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addicted and nobody cared about him

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anymore except for very bad movies so

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John Carradine played Dracula and in

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this scene in this movie we have Boris

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Karloff as a mad doctor and the mad

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doctor is exhibiting the skeletal

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remains of Count Dracula so he absent

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mindedly pulls the stake out of what it

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would have been the heart of Dracula and

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he comes back to life

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that's what I thought about Paul Kimball

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when you'd said that well I guess

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unfortunately I'm one of the guys who

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pulled the stake out of the heart of the

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Aztec case because when I was shooting a

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film on majestic 12 which is another one

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of ufology Dracula's there's vampires

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everywhere but I piggybacked an Aztec

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film on that because Stan Freedman

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introduced me to Scott Ramsey and said

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look here's a

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you should look and I you know have

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passport will make film for money so

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sure why not

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Scott erase some private investors from

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the u.s. to fund the film but gave me

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complete editorial control which is why

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the film that eventually came out

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provides equal time to both Scott's

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views and the views of the skeptics like

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Carl flock between my film I guess and

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Scott's book that eventually came out

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that's kind of what relaunched the Aztek

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case in the mid-2000s after it had been

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dead and buried for about 25 years or so

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the most recent attempt was a book by

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William Steinman UFO crash at Aztec

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which I think came out in the late 1980s

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I have a copy sitting around somewhere I

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just can't remember the exact

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publication date and then that made a

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splash for a little bit of time and then

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it disappeared so yeah as it's kind of

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like sequels it's kind of like superhero

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films you know we're we're on I think

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the Aztek case is you follow Jesus

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Whittle in Superman for quest for peace

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not a very good film but you know

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continuing the crashed saucer meeting

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well now of course they've moved

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everything to TV so we have Supergirl

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the flash arrow DC's legends of tomorrow

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we had Constantine for half a year and

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that was canceled and now we have Batman

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V Superman dawn of Justice and we have

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so many Marvel sequels I can't keep up

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with them but speaking about cases that

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don't die

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Scott Ramsey comes out with that book

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self-published say 2012 and just a

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couple of months ago I get a book from

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you know a fairly major publisher of

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UFOs and paranormal books called new

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page we're all familiar with them it's

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another edition of Aztec the Aztec UFO

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incident so I asked Scott Ramsey okay

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we're not going to make this show about

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Aztec just get rid of it right now I

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asked him what's different about this

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new book and he says there's over a

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hundred pages of new material so I said

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summarize it for me and so far I've

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asked him four times and he hasn't been

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able to summarize any major changes I

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assume the editing is slicker because I

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read a couple of chapters but I can't

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for the life of me figure out what makes

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it worth reading again so of course at

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this point in time I'm not going to read

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it again cogs you had something to say

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yeah I'm just going to point out that

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ufology has is just full of

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oculars there are so many cases that

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have been put to bed and yet they're

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raised again and again and again and it

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doesn't matter what evidence you produce

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to the you know to the true believers if

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they've already set a heart on a case

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there's nothing you can say to them that

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will change their minds and there's just

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so many resurrections happening all the

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time it's quite disappointing really it

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can make you a bit disillusioned but

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with shows like the podcast and most of

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the guests we have on you know we can

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see past these things but they're there

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all the time the Dracula's are there all

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the time no matter how many stakes are

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different to the heart you know it would

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make things a lot better if you fo

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investigators even the ones who write

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books and get paid for it and do paid

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lectures would admit when the situation

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changes oh I used to accept that case

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but now looking at it upon reflection I

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do not and it's kind of like the

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political world you know nobody in

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politics wants to admit to changing

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their mind because that's flip-flopping

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it's not being an adult and saying you

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know what based on this new set of facts

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I can't support that position anymore I

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changed I got older and the same thing

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and I own I really criticize your uncle

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Stanton Friedman Paul but you and I both

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agree that there's nothing to mj-12 why

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does he stick with it man I don't know

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stan has changed his mind on some things

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over the years

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certainly and he doesn't stick with

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everything to do with mj-12 he's been

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very critical for instance of the tim

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cooper documents for example his

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position is a little more nuanced but he

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believes the original documents are real

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some of that comes down to ego I don't

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mean that quite as pejoratively as it

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might sound but you know when you were

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the guide its it's hard to let something

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go I've never discovered anything in

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ufology except for some Canadian Records

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and their objective I just kind of write

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or make films about UFO cases or I used

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to so for instance when I did my top ten

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film back in 2007 you know I put up a

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post a couple years ago where I said

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look here's what I think of these ten

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cases now these four been explained

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these three I think you know sort of I

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think have been explained Tim Tim print

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he took a really good crack at the art

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47 case because I challenged him to and

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he devoted an entire issue of his

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sunlight magazine to it and I think he

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did an exhaustive job and I generally

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accept his conclusions generally so you

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know you have to be able to revise your

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position when somebody I mean that's

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isn't that what UFO researchers are

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always asking for they want the skeptics

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to take them seriously they want them to

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look at the evidence well when they look

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at the evidence and they come up with a

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reasonable explanation then you kind of

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have to accept it and move on we've got

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the 10th anniversary special round table

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of the power cast and we're featuring

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Paul Kimball Greg bishop

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GOx Makai Jean and Chris you're in the

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podcast

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[Music]

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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

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comment or question about the para cast

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sent it to news at the para cast com

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that's news at the para cast calm and

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don't forget to visit our famous para

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cast community forums at forum the para

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cast calm 10th anniversary roundtable

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with Paul Kimball Greg Bishop Chris

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O'Brien of course and Jean Steinberg

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magog's makai Greg Bishop since we're

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talking about things Jim Steinberg

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well okay we can start again but I

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haven't figured out how all right we're

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talking here about changing your mind

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about a UFO or paranormal case where

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have you modified your views about

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specific cases over the years I'm trying

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to think of a good one I got a good

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challenge on the Rex Heflin case but it

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was from somebody on the UFO mystic

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forum and I couldn't see any of his good

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points except for they had found that it

270
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was closer to the truck and then

271
00:11:09,870 --> 00:11:08,230
originally thought the I think the

272
00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:09,880
object was closer to the truck that was

273
00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:11,650
photographed that originally thought

274
00:11:14,730 --> 00:11:13,510
that was found by some skeptics but then

275
00:11:16,050 --> 00:11:14,740
some other people went through and

276
00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:16,060
looked at it and presented a paper that

277
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:18,310
said it wasn't and so I was prepared to

278
00:11:22,050 --> 00:11:20,320
change my mind but I didn't the funny

279
00:11:25,199 --> 00:11:22,060
thing is the only thing I think of that

280
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:25,209
I really changed my mind on was I didn't

281
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:26,560
think there was anything to the Dulce

282
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:29,050
base rumors not not at all I thought it

283
00:11:34,380 --> 00:11:30,370
was all completely made up by the Air

284
00:11:38,370 --> 00:11:34,390
Force the NSA or whoever and then over a

285
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:38,380
period of years gave Valdez who was the

286
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:41,170
State Highway Patrol I mean state police

287
00:11:48,540 --> 00:11:45,250
guy up in near Dulce

288
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:48,550
talked to me and over a period of years

289
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:51,250
like I said he informed me but that

290
00:11:55,310 --> 00:11:52,720
there was some sort of a weird thing

291
00:11:57,870 --> 00:11:55,320
there maybe a base something underground

292
00:11:59,460 --> 00:11:57,880
not exactly where everybody thought it

293
00:12:02,400 --> 00:11:59,470
was and not even really where Paul

294
00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:02,410
bennewitz said it was but some were up

295
00:12:05,819 --> 00:12:03,880
there and he offered to take me there

296
00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:05,829
and show me the you know showed me where

297
00:12:08,850 --> 00:12:07,270
the entrance was he said it looked like

298
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:08,860
it had been dynamited or something like

299
00:12:12,580 --> 00:12:11,290
that and along and him and a couple

300
00:12:14,170 --> 00:12:12,590
other people the tribe told

301
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:14,180
the same thing I don't think they were

302
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:17,330
pulling my leg now does that mean there

303
00:12:22,030 --> 00:12:19,490
was a base there with alien hybrids and

304
00:12:23,530 --> 00:12:22,040
and body parts and bats and all that no

305
00:12:25,270 --> 00:12:23,540
it doesn't mean that whatsoever

306
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:25,280
but it does mean that maybe there was

307
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:27,730
something going on there and the

308
00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:29,810
craziest thing I heard is it was an

309
00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:32,150
airbase like like a James Bond thing

310
00:12:36,010 --> 00:12:34,310
that things could fly into the mountain

311
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,020
I don't know if that's true

312
00:12:40,690 --> 00:12:38,720
but I had I changed my stance just a

313
00:12:42,820 --> 00:12:40,700
little bit just just as open to the

314
00:12:47,470 --> 00:12:42,830
possibility that's not really UFO case

315
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:47,480
but it was an aspect of a famous chapter

316
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:49,850
in ufology other than that you know when

317
00:12:55,510 --> 00:12:52,730
somebody comes up with a good

318
00:12:57,460 --> 00:12:55,520
explanation I'm perfectly willing to

319
00:12:59,620 --> 00:12:57,470
change my mind on it I mean I don't mind

320
00:13:01,570 --> 00:12:59,630
I'm not a vote emotionally invested in

321
00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:01,580
any of these things if somebody said

322
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:03,980
something I had written if I had written

323
00:13:07,870 --> 00:13:05,690
an entire book and somebody said it was

324
00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:07,880
it was wrong or there was you know there

325
00:13:11,650 --> 00:13:09,590
was no basis in fact for anything I'd

326
00:13:14,170 --> 00:13:11,660
written like Stan I guess I'd have a

327
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:14,180
really hard time letting go of it but

328
00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:15,530
the thing is that you know a hundred

329
00:13:19,390 --> 00:13:17,510
people tell me something or even three

330
00:13:20,860 --> 00:13:19,400
or four or five and give me compelling

331
00:13:23,470 --> 00:13:20,870
evidence of course I'm going to change

332
00:13:25,210 --> 00:13:23,480
my mind otherwise things don't advance

333
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:25,220
and you end up looking stupid too a lot

334
00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:28,880
of people I kind of think here when you

335
00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:30,710
have something like that situation like

336
00:13:37,780 --> 00:13:34,300
that being able to say okay folks I

337
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:37,790
think that this particular case which

338
00:13:41,950 --> 00:13:39,440
once impressed me upon further

339
00:13:44,620 --> 00:13:41,960
reflection it doesn't it's important

340
00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:44,630
that sometimes we look back at old cases

341
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:46,670
and get them out of the way so we can

342
00:13:50,980 --> 00:13:48,560
concentrate on the stuff that's really

343
00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:50,990
good Chris over the years do you recall

344
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:52,910
cases that you may have believed at one

345
00:13:58,060 --> 00:13:55,010
time then you said you know what maybe

346
00:14:00,160 --> 00:13:58,070
not well yeah you know starting at the

347
00:14:04,630 --> 00:14:00,170
granddaddy of them all Roswell I think

348
00:14:06,820 --> 00:14:04,640
early on before I became more up to

349
00:14:11,170 --> 00:14:06,830
speed about the ins and outs of the case

350
00:14:12,730 --> 00:14:11,180
and it just you know again it's so we

351
00:14:15,460 --> 00:14:12,740
used the term it's one of those Dracula

352
00:14:16,780 --> 00:14:15,470
cases for me it doesn't matter how many

353
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:16,790
times we stab but it keeps coming back

354
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:19,310
when I initially heard about Roswell in

355
00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:21,650
the late eighties early nineties I I

356
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:23,510
thought there was something to it I you

357
00:14:27,730 --> 00:14:25,310
know of course with that

358
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:27,740
that wonderful headline the Roswell

359
00:14:33,310 --> 00:14:30,800
Daily News and the fact that the the

360
00:14:36,370 --> 00:14:33,320
army actually you know was responsible

361
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:36,380
for putting out the the announcement and

362
00:14:40,390 --> 00:14:38,090
all that I was very impressed with that

363
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:40,400
but of course some more that I have dug

364
00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:43,010
into the case the more it's gotten I

365
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:45,110
don't know just almost a mythic

366
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:48,110
reputation I don't think the books that

367
00:14:54,250 --> 00:14:50,480
have come out since the original couple

368
00:14:56,019 --> 00:14:54,260
three have really done the case a great

369
00:14:58,570 --> 00:14:56,029
service I think the waters have been

370
00:15:00,880 --> 00:14:58,580
incredibly muddied I become less and

371
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:00,890
less convinced over the years that it

372
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:02,210
was an extraterrestrial event

373
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:03,920
and become more and more convinced that

374
00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:05,120
we were dealing with some sort of

375
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:08,960
man-made object although that's not a

376
00:15:16,090 --> 00:15:12,890
very popular point of view I don't think

377
00:15:20,140 --> 00:15:16,100
you know it goes as far as Nick Redferns

378
00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:20,150
I think very entertaining theory that

379
00:15:25,090 --> 00:15:22,880
body-snatchers in the desert but I think

380
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:25,100
we do need creative thinking just in

381
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:27,170
general when saying this like a broken

382
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:30,710
record for years other cases yeah there

383
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:34,160
have been a few uh I think Cape

384
00:15:40,270 --> 00:15:36,770
Girardeau is one that deserves more

385
00:15:42,579 --> 00:15:40,280
attention I originally thought that

386
00:15:44,050 --> 00:15:42,589
there was nothing to that having dug

387
00:15:48,940 --> 00:15:44,060
into it a little bit I think that there

388
00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:48,950
may be something there other cases San

389
00:15:55,750 --> 00:15:52,910
Luis Valley cases I think over the years

390
00:16:00,340 --> 00:15:55,760
um the cases have stood up surprisingly

391
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:00,350
well I've come to doubt some of the

392
00:16:05,579 --> 00:16:02,930
cattle mutilation cases I think more and

393
00:16:07,750 --> 00:16:05,589
more and more of these cases are

394
00:16:10,660 --> 00:16:07,760
misidentified scavenger action not all

395
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:10,670
by any stretch so I'm I think it has

396
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:12,320
become more conservative in general

397
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:16,480
around that particular mystery but I do

398
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:20,240
again stand by the my assertion that we

399
00:16:25,660 --> 00:16:22,250
are dealing with a serial crime spree of

400
00:16:27,490 --> 00:16:25,670
unprecedented uh you know levels if you

401
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:27,500
will and that there's definitely

402
00:16:31,930 --> 00:16:30,010
something there but you know I I think

403
00:16:35,770 --> 00:16:31,940
for the most part I I

404
00:16:38,110 --> 00:16:35,780
I trust my instincts um about cases I I

405
00:16:38,950 --> 00:16:38,120
don't even really dig into cases that I

406
00:16:42,070 --> 00:16:38,960
just don't feel

407
00:16:45,220 --> 00:16:42,080
I did I feel are instinctively or just a

408
00:16:48,910 --> 00:16:45,230
waste of time perhaps that's a fault I'm

409
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:48,920
not sure it's I just don't have enough

410
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:53,090
time to devote to chasing my tail or

411
00:17:00,670 --> 00:16:56,930
chasing around cases that don't have

412
00:17:02,890 --> 00:17:00,680
enough scintillating evidence to you

413
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:02,900
know really attract deep interest so I

414
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:04,850
don't know if that answers your question

415
00:17:10,810 --> 00:17:09,050
but I am pliable enough to I think to

416
00:17:14,890 --> 00:17:10,820
look at new facts coming out about a

417
00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:14,900
case and in factor that in I'm not I try

418
00:17:18,850 --> 00:17:17,120
to be as flexible and open-minded as I

419
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:18,860
can and as objective as I can

420
00:17:27,699 --> 00:17:24,290
cogs what about you and I'm not well I'm

421
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:27,709
not too sure about actual cases that I

422
00:17:34,210 --> 00:17:31,520
once believed and now I don't but so for

423
00:17:37,210 --> 00:17:34,220
instance certain pieces of evidence no I

424
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:37,220
think a lot of us believed the Belgium

425
00:17:45,610 --> 00:17:40,730
triangle photo was genuine and then it

426
00:17:48,190 --> 00:17:45,620
turned out that it wasn't and I'm not I

427
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:48,200
still think Roswell had something pretty

428
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:50,810
high strange about it I've never

429
00:17:56,140 --> 00:17:53,810
believed ours Tech and because the one

430
00:17:59,110 --> 00:17:56,150
thing about the Roswell case is you know

431
00:18:01,570 --> 00:17:59,120
well say 20 30 years ago there was still

432
00:18:05,170 --> 00:18:01,580
you know a large number of living

433
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:05,180
witnesses and who had you know some part

434
00:18:12,490 --> 00:18:10,490
to play see in the whole event and can I

435
00:18:15,460 --> 00:18:12,500
quickly just go back to the thing about

436
00:18:17,140 --> 00:18:15,470
Stanton Friedman and NJ 12 documents

437
00:18:19,540 --> 00:18:17,150
let's all that far segment

438
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:19,550
okay so we'll talk about Stanton

439
00:18:24,370 --> 00:18:22,160
Friedman and mj-12 we're still present

440
00:18:27,220 --> 00:18:24,380
we're still accounted for we're here

441
00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:27,230
doing the 10th anniversary episode of

442
00:18:33,010 --> 00:18:30,470
the power I cast 10 years ago today the

443
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:33,020
show premiered we have Paul Kimball

444
00:18:38,980 --> 00:18:35,810
Chris O'Brien Jean Steinberg Greg Bishop

445
00:18:41,940 --> 00:18:38,990
cogs Makai with gene and Chris and

446
00:18:57,609 --> 00:18:41,950
everyone you're in the para cast

447
00:19:04,339 --> 00:19:01,070
this is jocularly you're listening to

448
00:19:15,310 --> 00:19:04,349
the podcast the gold standard of crown

449
00:19:20,659 --> 00:19:18,830
we continue kind to revisit old cases

450
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:20,669
where our opinions might have changed

451
00:19:25,130 --> 00:19:22,710
I'll ask for further response from Paul

452
00:19:27,620 --> 00:19:25,140
Kimball and I'll give you my in a moment

453
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:27,630
but gags you are talking about Stanton

454
00:19:32,210 --> 00:19:29,850
Friedman and mj-12 in our previous

455
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:32,220
segment go on please yeah I was just

456
00:19:37,940 --> 00:19:34,770
somebody mentioned earlier on about how

457
00:19:39,799 --> 00:19:37,950
Stanton is steadfast and you know still

458
00:19:43,690 --> 00:19:39,809
believing that the mj-12 documents

459
00:19:46,580 --> 00:19:43,700
authenticity when most people in ufology

460
00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:46,590
certainly don't but I actually heard him

461
00:19:51,710 --> 00:19:49,230
in an interview just the other day it's

462
00:19:54,409 --> 00:19:51,720
a quite recent interview and he actually

463
00:19:57,289 --> 00:19:54,419
seemed to me to have changed his stance

464
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:57,299
quite a lot he was admitting that the

465
00:20:02,180 --> 00:19:59,520
vast majority of the documents were

466
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:02,190
indeed false with just a few grains of

467
00:20:07,180 --> 00:20:04,250
truth in the classic mode of

468
00:20:10,340 --> 00:20:07,190
disinformation where you actually

469
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:10,350
include a bit of truth with a lot of

470
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:12,210
disinformation and that seems to be

471
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:15,330
quite a change from say 10 15 20 years

472
00:20:22,130 --> 00:20:19,200
ago when he seemed to believe much more

473
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:22,140
of them were the genuine article I think

474
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:24,720
he has changed his mind on the mj-12

475
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:26,640
documents quite a lot actually

476
00:20:30,650 --> 00:20:28,230
all right let me just give you my

477
00:20:32,180 --> 00:20:30,660
examples in our last poll about how his

478
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:32,190
opinions have changed over the years in

479
00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:36,090
my case it is about Roswell mj-12 and we

480
00:20:40,460 --> 00:20:38,160
were talking about sequel itis before

481
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:40,470
and now of course with all the witnesses

482
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,330
gone in Roswell we have a book called

483
00:20:48,110 --> 00:20:44,400
the children of Roswell from Carrie and

484
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:48,120
Schmidt okay so next issue will be

485
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:50,880
beyond Roswell or Roswell beyond or

486
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:52,260
something like that or the wrath of

487
00:20:57,260 --> 00:20:54,000
Roswell I'm waiting for that book you

488
00:20:59,060 --> 00:20:57,270
know book 26 the wrath of Roswell Ron

489
00:21:03,380 --> 00:20:59,070
Regehr has a book another damn book

490
00:21:05,090 --> 00:21:03,390
about Roswell you see we're right we had

491
00:21:06,770 --> 00:21:05,100
run on the show here and I'm kind of

492
00:21:08,659 --> 00:21:06,780
wondered whether we even care about some

493
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:08,669
of this my nude stuff because we're not

494
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:11,130
getting to the core of it but mj-12

495
00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:13,890
I grew skeptical of that probably in the

496
00:21:20,210 --> 00:21:17,190
late 80s which dates me Roswell I do

497
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:20,220
think we need to expand ourselves it's

498
00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:23,370
too simplistic to say okay was et I

499
00:21:27,410 --> 00:21:24,780
think the

500
00:21:29,930 --> 00:21:27,420
ideas of it being something related to

501
00:21:31,910 --> 00:21:29,940
earth should be explored further those

502
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:31,920
are areas in which certainly my

503
00:21:37,790 --> 00:21:35,010
skepticism has increased I even consider

504
00:21:41,150 --> 00:21:37,800
things like what is it cash Landrum and

505
00:21:44,660 --> 00:21:41,160
maybe Rendlesham might have more been

506
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:44,670
related to the test of a nuclear-powered

507
00:21:51,980 --> 00:21:49,290
aircraft as much as about possible UFOs

508
00:21:54,140 --> 00:21:51,990
I don't know Paul Kimball over the years

509
00:21:56,150 --> 00:21:54,150
what about the things that you used to

510
00:21:58,880 --> 00:21:56,160
believe in but no longer yeah it's a

511
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:58,890
pretty wide sort of range of things you

512
00:22:02,390 --> 00:21:59,760
know I don't want to talk about a

513
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:02,400
particular UFO case I don't think

514
00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:04,650
because there's a lot of them you know I

515
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:08,280
spent a year in 2008-2009 came out in

516
00:22:13,910 --> 00:22:11,610
2010 doing a ghost investigating

517
00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:13,920
television series up here in Canada and

518
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:16,350
shot shot for the episodes in England

519
00:22:21,530 --> 00:22:20,130
actually and you know going in Mike well

520
00:22:24,260 --> 00:22:21,540
yeah Holly and I were on the show many

521
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:24,270
years ago my co-host Holly was more of

522
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:26,970
the believer type and I was more of them

523
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:28,890
the Scully type from the x-files so we

524
00:22:33,470 --> 00:22:30,960
kind of gender bended the roles there

525
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:33,480
and things happen during the course of

526
00:22:36,890 --> 00:22:35,850
the show that you could have one of two

527
00:22:38,930 --> 00:22:36,900
things you could have one of two

528
00:22:41,390 --> 00:22:38,940
reactions the first one is to just

529
00:22:44,420 --> 00:22:41,400
hunker down as so many UFO believers do

530
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:44,430
but so so to do so many disbelievers as

531
00:22:48,590 --> 00:22:46,710
I call them and just ignore evidence or

532
00:22:50,180 --> 00:22:48,600
ignore experiences and say well okay

533
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:50,190
that that couldn't be anything I'm not

534
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:51,840
even going to think about it or you

535
00:22:56,150 --> 00:22:53,490
could say well that was genuinely weird

536
00:22:59,150 --> 00:22:56,160
I don't know what it was but it changes

537
00:23:00,650 --> 00:22:59,160
my perception of what might actually be

538
00:23:02,750 --> 00:23:00,660
happening here so I'm not going to just

539
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:02,760
dismiss a hundred percent of it as lies

540
00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:05,130
or hoaxes or misidentifications or

541
00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:07,470
misperceptions I'm going to actually

542
00:23:11,710 --> 00:23:09,540
take a closer look at it and I think

543
00:23:14,660 --> 00:23:11,720
sometimes when it happens to you that

544
00:23:16,910 --> 00:23:14,670
can have a very direct impact on you

545
00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:16,920
that people of faith or spirituality

546
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:18,990
when they have direct religious

547
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:21,120
experiences as we might call them some

548
00:23:25,340 --> 00:23:23,310
very often can change their views on

549
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:25,350
questions of God or that sort of thing I

550
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,330
mean Saul on the road to Damascus is the

551
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:30,000
most well-known example to the point

552
00:23:33,290 --> 00:23:31,440
where even changed his name to my name

553
00:23:35,450 --> 00:23:33,300
so or I change my name to his name but

554
00:23:36,260 --> 00:23:35,460
yeah and started a world religion but

555
00:23:38,150 --> 00:23:36,270
you know you can find those

556
00:23:39,290 --> 00:23:38,160
transformative events not every

557
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:39,300
one's going to be saw on the road to

558
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:40,710
Damascus but we can all have those

559
00:23:45,050 --> 00:23:43,050
moments where you know we have to call

560
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:45,060
into question our beliefs whether it's

561
00:23:49,670 --> 00:23:47,130
politics or or whether it's in the

562
00:23:52,490 --> 00:23:49,680
paranormal or anything so sure I mean

563
00:23:54,770 --> 00:23:52,500
any lawyer will tell you to as Gog said

564
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,780
about evidence that you might enter a

565
00:23:59,060 --> 00:23:56,400
trial or you might enter a case with a

566
00:24:00,860 --> 00:23:59,070
particular set of evidence and when new

567
00:24:02,750 --> 00:24:00,870
evidence comes to light you have one of

568
00:24:05,390 --> 00:24:02,760
two choices you can either ignore it and

569
00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:05,400
continue on and that usually means that

570
00:24:08,990 --> 00:24:07,140
even if you do convict somebody it's

571
00:24:10,790 --> 00:24:09,000
going to be overturned on appeal and

572
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,800
you're going to look like an idiot by

573
00:24:13,850 --> 00:24:11,760
the way that would also be called

574
00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:13,860
prosecutorial malfeasance you could go

575
00:24:17,540 --> 00:24:15,350
to jail for something like that

576
00:24:19,130 --> 00:24:17,550
certainly lose your job or you could

577
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:19,140
take the new evidence and you can say

578
00:24:22,220 --> 00:24:20,640
you know what I'm going to factor this

579
00:24:23,690 --> 00:24:22,230
into what I'm looking at but I'm also

580
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:23,700
going to give it to the other side and

581
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:25,890
say look you take a look at it and you

582
00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:27,210
give me your thoughts and let's try and

583
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:29,430
come to the truth of the matter here I

584
00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:32,010
see that in my day to day life all the

585
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:33,990
time whether politics or the industry I

586
00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:35,910
work in or the things that interest me

587
00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:37,950
like the paranormal far too many people

588
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:40,470
don't share new evidence or don't share

589
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:42,890
their opinions in an open and honest way

590
00:24:46,340 --> 00:24:44,730
without that you can't have a real

591
00:24:48,290 --> 00:24:46,350
dialogue there's one of the reasons why

592
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:48,300
I was attracted wait that sounds wrong

593
00:24:52,820 --> 00:24:50,970
but I'll say tracted to Greg and Nick

594
00:24:54,620 --> 00:24:52,830
and Mack Tony's you know we all sort of

595
00:24:56,420 --> 00:24:54,630
thought the same way that none of us had

596
00:24:59,090 --> 00:24:56,430
any real preconceptions we would just

597
00:25:00,440 --> 00:24:59,100
run ideas through the mill and I think

598
00:25:01,820 --> 00:25:00,450
that's the way you have to look at it

599
00:25:03,980 --> 00:25:01,830
and if more people would do that I think

600
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:03,990
you'd find more people interested in the

601
00:25:09,290 --> 00:25:06,000
subject well the problem is here is that

602
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:09,300
when the media covers UFOs it's always

603
00:25:15,020 --> 00:25:12,810
with pre-built assumptions so UFOs have

604
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:15,030
to be spaceships we accept that the

605
00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:17,490
Roswell crash was real now let's have

606
00:25:23,030 --> 00:25:20,580
another exciting UFO event let's get the

607
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,040
night vision goggles out and that is

608
00:25:28,490 --> 00:25:25,440
where it begins and where it ends and

609
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:28,500
it's why we get possibly nowhere now if

610
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:30,570
you folks heard last week's episode I

611
00:25:34,430 --> 00:25:32,970
did with Peter Davenport and Chris had

612
00:25:36,980 --> 00:25:34,440
to leave a little bit before the end of

613
00:25:38,930 --> 00:25:36,990
the show I was really kind of ragging on

614
00:25:41,270 --> 00:25:38,940
him about the database

615
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:41,280
you know he's kept this database up for

616
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:44,490
22 years with thousands and thousands of

617
00:25:49,850 --> 00:25:47,850
UFO cases it's really almost useless

618
00:25:51,340 --> 00:25:49,860
because it doesn't have very good search

619
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:51,350
he's not

620
00:25:55,900 --> 00:25:53,210
to see there's a way to merge that with

621
00:25:57,940 --> 00:25:55,910
say mu Fonz database although both

622
00:25:59,230 --> 00:25:57,950
parties would have to agree it's at a

623
00:26:02,049 --> 00:25:59,240
point where we have all this information

624
00:26:04,510 --> 00:26:02,059
a lot of it is online but doesn't do

625
00:26:06,190 --> 00:26:04,520
anything we're not really investigating

626
00:26:10,029 --> 00:26:06,200
anything we're just citing collectors

627
00:26:12,130 --> 00:26:10,039
we're storytellers who wants to enter

628
00:26:14,940 --> 00:26:12,140
with a comment about that just jump in

629
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:14,950
okay I will I recently interviewed

630
00:26:19,810 --> 00:26:17,720
Cassidy Niklas who's an official and

631
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:19,820
MUFON and I asked her directly I said

632
00:26:25,390 --> 00:26:22,730
one are you changing the questions you

633
00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:25,400
ask instead of just how high was it what

634
00:26:29,890 --> 00:26:27,470
color was that all this other stuff -

635
00:26:32,140 --> 00:26:29,900
and she said yes they're changing it or

636
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:32,150
they try to - how do you guard against

637
00:26:37,060 --> 00:26:34,250
people leading witnesses because you

638
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:37,070
know your your impression of the typical

639
00:26:41,049 --> 00:26:38,960
UFO investigators they're trying to find

640
00:26:43,330 --> 00:26:41,059
evidence for extraterrestrial visitation

641
00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:43,340
she assured me that they they're told to

642
00:26:48,460 --> 00:26:46,070
be as as non-committal as possible not

643
00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:48,470
to lead the witness don't ask them any

644
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:50,809
leading questions like okay I guess

645
00:26:54,490 --> 00:26:52,730
that's all you can do and the third one

646
00:26:57,340 --> 00:26:54,500
was what do you do with this database

647
00:26:59,380 --> 00:26:57,350
can anybody use it she assured me that

648
00:27:01,210 --> 00:26:59,390
anybody could use it in a limited way I

649
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:01,220
guess if you're in the hierarchy or a

650
00:27:05,770 --> 00:27:03,289
member or something or make a special

651
00:27:08,260 --> 00:27:05,780
request you can use it but the thing is

652
00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:08,270
yeah up to now

653
00:27:15,070 --> 00:27:11,600
people like Davenport MUFON and earlier

654
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:15,080
the AP are oh and a few other cue foes

655
00:27:18,610 --> 00:27:16,640
have been collecting all this

656
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:18,620
information and it's you know it's

657
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:21,010
incomplete list but it's a huge database

658
00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:25,039
the probably one of the most creative

659
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:26,390
things that could be done with this

660
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:28,090
database is get it all together

661
00:27:32,890 --> 00:27:31,370
standardize it in some way and then

662
00:27:38,380 --> 00:27:32,900
start running it through extremely

663
00:27:40,510 --> 00:27:38,390
strange scenarios mixing very you know

664
00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:40,520
very disparate things like the person's

665
00:27:44,409 --> 00:27:42,049
background in the day of the week or

666
00:27:47,049 --> 00:27:44,419
something like that another thing that

667
00:27:49,690 --> 00:27:47,059
was pointed out that should be added to

668
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:49,700
the database and when Jacques Vallee

669
00:27:56,770 --> 00:27:54,770
spoke at International UFO conference he

670
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:56,780
said this near the end which somebody

671
00:28:01,390 --> 00:27:58,010
said I should they thought I was in a

672
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:01,400
stand up and Cheer but he said the

673
00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:03,650
database is great but things should be

674
00:28:07,270 --> 00:28:05,030
added to it like

675
00:28:08,860 --> 00:28:07,280
objective impressions and maybe more

676
00:28:09,550 --> 00:28:08,870
importantly what was the person doing

677
00:28:11,230 --> 00:28:09,560
before

678
00:28:12,790 --> 00:28:11,240
why didn't get activity were they

679
00:28:14,290 --> 00:28:12,800
engaged in what were they doing that day

680
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:14,300
and what were they what happened later

681
00:28:18,910 --> 00:28:16,640
what happened the next day the next week

682
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:18,920
a couple you know months years how is

683
00:28:22,690 --> 00:28:20,570
their life life changed

684
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:22,700
that's our break and then Chris you

685
00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:25,490
respond then we'll have dogs okay the

686
00:28:31,030 --> 00:28:28,550
10th anniversary para cash show getting

687
00:28:33,340 --> 00:28:31,040
down to business with cogs Makai Greg

688
00:28:39,220 --> 00:28:33,350
Bishop Paul Kimball gene and Chris with

689
00:28:50,290 --> 00:28:45,290
[Music]

690
00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:50,300
this is a skirt 7 the author of us on

691
00:28:58,510 --> 00:28:51,980
the streets and you're listening to the

692
00:29:01,060 --> 00:28:58,520
podcast we have Paul Kimball GOx Makai

693
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:01,070
Greg Bishop with gene and Chris on the

694
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:02,960
power cast let me remind you about the

695
00:29:07,810 --> 00:29:05,330
power cast Plus have mentioned it so far

696
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:07,820
today it's where we offer the ad free

697
00:29:12,940 --> 00:29:09,770
version of this show the after the power

698
00:29:15,790 --> 00:29:12,950
cast podcast show transcripts videos

699
00:29:18,850 --> 00:29:15,800
coming and more to come go to plus stop

700
00:29:21,370 --> 00:29:18,860
the power cast compy l us dot the power

701
00:29:23,710 --> 00:29:21,380
cast com some have asked us once you

702
00:29:25,870 --> 00:29:23,720
subscribe to para cast + can you hear

703
00:29:27,570 --> 00:29:25,880
the shows in itunes yes can you hear

704
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:27,580
them on your iPhone and Android

705
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:29,840
smartphone yes you can

706
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:34,610
on iOS podcasts app downcast and their

707
00:29:40,180 --> 00:29:36,770
apps also for Android you could hear it

708
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:40,190
on Plus that the para cast com

709
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:44,000
so we had Greg's response there about

710
00:29:49,420 --> 00:29:47,570
the issues regarding databases the MUFON

711
00:29:51,790 --> 00:29:49,430
database what Jacques fillet had to say

712
00:29:53,710 --> 00:29:51,800
at the International UFO Congress Chris

713
00:29:58,020 --> 00:29:53,720
you wanted to throw in a comment and

714
00:30:00,430 --> 00:29:58,030
gods Chris well I did and I I actually

715
00:30:02,730 --> 00:30:00,440
was kind of wondering if Greg had stood

716
00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:02,740
up and started cheering I would have to

717
00:30:08,590 --> 00:30:06,430
when valet pointed out that what

718
00:30:10,450 --> 00:30:08,600
essentially what he was saying is we've

719
00:30:13,180 --> 00:30:10,460
been you know these databases are great

720
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:13,190
when you're looking at an event and the

721
00:30:20,450 --> 00:30:16,650
the actual mechanics of what went on

722
00:30:24,110 --> 00:30:20,460
you know duration azimuth approximate

723
00:30:26,210 --> 00:30:24,120
speed color approximate size that sort

724
00:30:28,220 --> 00:30:26,220
of thing both but what most of these

725
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:28,230
database I fact all of them in my

726
00:30:30,830 --> 00:30:30,450
opinion are missing the forest for the

727
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:30,840
trees

728
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:35,250
I think the experiencer is as important

729
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:37,170
as what's being experienced if not more

730
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:39,570
it's the impact that these events have

731
00:30:46,340 --> 00:30:42,809
on people's lives how these experience

732
00:30:48,049 --> 00:30:46,350
may or may not um you know impact the

733
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:48,059
person's thinking their belief systems

734
00:30:56,510 --> 00:30:54,110
uh their sense of of I don't know

735
00:30:58,669 --> 00:30:56,520
oftentimes you hear people having these

736
00:31:00,560 --> 00:30:58,679
events and and and they are very

737
00:31:03,370 --> 00:31:00,570
dramatically impacted by it in fact they

738
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:03,380
start religions they uh they channel are

739
00:31:10,540 --> 00:31:07,679
ascended masters they they fall prey to

740
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:10,550
the special destiny syndrome if you will

741
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:13,440
but some people don't get the the the

742
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:15,510
impact of these events on their life and

743
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:17,760
their thinking is is more subtle and I

744
00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:21,690
think it's these follow-up interviews

745
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:24,360
staying in touch with witnesses ringing

746
00:31:28,820 --> 00:31:26,940
them up occasionally and you know and

747
00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:28,830
just having small talk and then just

748
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:30,510
kind of feeling them out to find out how

749
00:31:36,740 --> 00:31:33,570
the event has changed or hasn't changed

750
00:31:38,750 --> 00:31:36,750
how they view themselves of their place

751
00:31:40,580 --> 00:31:38,760
in reality and the type of phenomenal

752
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:40,590
event that they experience I think this

753
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:42,720
is very very important and it is not

754
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:46,170
being addressed at all yet gene I've

755
00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:47,970
just got a quick a couple of points

756
00:31:54,650 --> 00:31:49,740
they're going back to a Peter Davenport

757
00:31:56,270 --> 00:31:54,660
Sam appearance there last week and there

758
00:31:58,790 --> 00:31:56,280
was one thing that I just thought was a

759
00:32:02,030 --> 00:31:58,800
great when you say when you asked Peter

760
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:02,040
you know you know what are we getting

761
00:32:07,940 --> 00:32:04,320
out of this you know you making your

762
00:32:10,730 --> 00:32:07,950
canal database and stuff you know

763
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:10,740
without merging it with others and he

764
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:13,290
said Oh gene you know I get you know

765
00:32:17,180 --> 00:32:15,360
calls or emails from people saying oh

766
00:32:19,390 --> 00:32:17,190
you have no idea how much you've helped

767
00:32:21,549 --> 00:32:19,400
me or something

768
00:32:24,010 --> 00:32:21,559
and you equipped back you know that's

769
00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:24,020
great you made some D feel good you know

770
00:32:30,220 --> 00:32:26,510
as if to say you know that's not really

771
00:32:32,490 --> 00:32:30,230
enough of a reason to be doing I've got

772
00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:32,500
the greatest respect for Peter Davenport

773
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:35,870
he works very hard for a long time for

774
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:38,330
no pain all that we get that but he just

775
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:40,850
seemed so reluctant to kind of even

776
00:32:46,780 --> 00:32:44,090
consider merging his data with anything

777
00:32:49,540 --> 00:32:46,790
else with and what what I was basically

778
00:32:51,850 --> 00:32:49,550
what into I wanted to get a hold woman

779
00:32:53,590 --> 00:32:51,860
thinks a right you're doing all this

780
00:32:57,549 --> 00:32:53,600
work you've been doing it for 20 years

781
00:33:00,400 --> 00:32:57,559
or so Peter but why what is the point if

782
00:33:03,460 --> 00:33:00,410
all you do is keep it to yourself with

783
00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:03,470
no intention of like adding it to the

784
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:06,160
greater picture of other databases stuff

785
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:09,110
some thinking he's complaining about all

786
00:33:13,930 --> 00:33:10,880
the hours he has to work and stuff like

787
00:33:15,940 --> 00:33:13,940
up for no pay I'm thinking well why what

788
00:33:18,580 --> 00:33:15,950
are you doing what's the end result you

789
00:33:20,380 --> 00:33:18,590
want Peter apart from just having this

790
00:33:22,930 --> 00:33:20,390
database it's not going anywhere

791
00:33:26,830 --> 00:33:22,940
and the only way to make it go anywhere

792
00:33:29,770 --> 00:33:26,840
is to take it further by you know adding

793
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:29,780
in well adding the work with the work of

794
00:33:35,919 --> 00:33:32,720
other people I don't know what his end

795
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:35,929
aim is if he doesn't wish to you know

796
00:33:40,510 --> 00:33:38,720
share the data with other people I mean

797
00:33:42,250 --> 00:33:40,520
I understand him saying oh I've done the

798
00:33:45,250 --> 00:33:42,260
work and I don't want to just give it

799
00:33:46,810 --> 00:33:45,260
away for free so oh what why is he doing

800
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:46,820
it I couldn't understand what his

801
00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:50,290
motivation is to give up all this time

802
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:54,320
but for what this is the thing that

803
00:33:59,380 --> 00:33:57,200
bothers me so much now he's trying to

804
00:34:01,960 --> 00:33:59,390
put a cash value on the database well

805
00:34:04,510 --> 00:34:01,970
I've been doing it for 22 years I don't

806
00:34:06,430 --> 00:34:04,520
just want to give it away well what do

807
00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:06,440
you want to do with it the same question

808
00:34:13,030 --> 00:34:09,679
we'd asked of MUFON or anybody who has a

809
00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:13,040
database now remember here we have these

810
00:34:18,460 --> 00:34:16,310
file cabinets with a pro's files in it

811
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:18,470
and that stuff has never been digitized

812
00:34:23,379 --> 00:34:20,720
and there could be a ton of information

813
00:34:25,389 --> 00:34:23,389
there that we have no access to in fact

814
00:34:27,070 --> 00:34:25,399
Chris I know you've made a lot of

815
00:34:29,770 --> 00:34:27,080
comments about that that we have these

816
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:29,780
people who are caretakers of a pros

817
00:34:32,860 --> 00:34:32,210
files and nothing's being done I gather

818
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:32,870
Chris

819
00:34:37,530 --> 00:34:35,570
nothing is still being done completely

820
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:37,540
disappeared as far as I can tell I

821
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:40,490
haven't been able to even ascertain

822
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:42,050
whether they're still in the Sedona area

823
00:34:47,110 --> 00:34:45,170
or not their phone up it still

824
00:34:50,410 --> 00:34:47,120
apparently works so there's no message

825
00:34:51,910 --> 00:34:50,420
on the message machine so I'm assuming

826
00:34:53,770 --> 00:34:51,920
that the same phone numbers work and

827
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:53,780
every three or four times a year I call

828
00:34:59,130 --> 00:34:55,970
them up and say hey remember me you owe

829
00:35:02,110 --> 00:34:59,140
me a visit to the a profiles and

830
00:35:03,700 --> 00:35:02,120
unfortunately I just hope that they

831
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:03,710
haven't been ransomed off to some

832
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:07,010
private collector or some Japanese guy

833
00:35:12,850 --> 00:35:09,530
or you know you just never know these

834
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:12,860
people we're caretakers of a million

835
00:35:17,740 --> 00:35:15,530
dollar Gem and Mineral collection and

836
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:17,750
used it as collateral to get loans to

837
00:35:23,770 --> 00:35:21,770
buy land and got busted their shady kind

838
00:35:26,110 --> 00:35:23,780
of fly fly-by-night people to begin with

839
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:26,120
and the fact they ended up with the

840
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:28,880
files is just flabbergasting to me they

841
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:31,370
were talking fifteen full four-drawer

842
00:35:38,740 --> 00:35:34,370
file cabinets plus a lot of boxes books

843
00:35:41,110 --> 00:35:38,750
tapes but uh that sort of thing enough

844
00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:41,120
to fill a small storage locker it would

845
00:35:45,850 --> 00:35:43,310
take years to digitize all that material

846
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:45,860
yeah if it were available and I remember

847
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:49,970
the title of an article written by Ray

848
00:35:56,770 --> 00:35:54,650
Palmer about a brouhaha involving me and

849
00:35:59,440 --> 00:35:56,780
alan greenfield and rick hilberg and

850
00:36:01,090 --> 00:35:59,450
richard hall back in the 60s when i

851
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:01,100
tried to visit and ICAP headquarters

852
00:36:05,050 --> 00:36:03,170
with my friends and hall looked at me

853
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:05,060
and pointed his finger at me and said

854
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:06,290
you're not welcome here

855
00:36:11,290 --> 00:36:08,690
so we told palmer what happened he wrote

856
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:11,300
an article called no investigations can

857
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:14,810
actually proceed and I see a p4 nycap

858
00:36:22,270 --> 00:36:17,930
but the point here which continues to

859
00:36:25,780 --> 00:36:22,280
bother me is that nobody nobody is

860
00:36:27,490 --> 00:36:25,790
really doing that much research here you

861
00:36:29,380 --> 00:36:27,500
know we have databases where they're

862
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:29,390
throwing information into this big box

863
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:32,770
and they're doing nothing with it and

864
00:36:38,500 --> 00:36:36,130
you have field investigators from MUFON

865
00:36:40,060 --> 00:36:38,510
collecting sightings and nothing is

866
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:40,070
being done with it it's entered into the

867
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:43,730
database no investigations can actually

868
00:36:47,710 --> 00:36:46,250
proceed God's you had a comment

869
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:47,720
and we only have a couple of minutes

870
00:36:51,099 --> 00:36:49,040
left for the segment you had a comment

871
00:36:54,220 --> 00:36:51,109
you want to make about disclosure and

872
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:54,230
maybe we could relate it to this exactly

873
00:37:00,130 --> 00:36:57,410
how often do you hear demands in the sub

874
00:37:02,650 --> 00:37:00,140
in the field of ufology about or the

875
00:37:04,930 --> 00:37:02,660
government needs disclosure to make

876
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:04,940
disclosure disclosures coming this year

877
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:07,520
next year whatever but then you've got

878
00:37:12,460 --> 00:37:09,650
all these people such as Peter Davenport

879
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:12,470
and they've no intention of disclosing

880
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:16,160
what they've got so you know it's kind

881
00:37:21,730 --> 00:37:18,830
of well you can't expect the government

882
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:21,740
to do something that we're not willing

883
00:37:25,630 --> 00:37:24,770
to do ourselves you know pot calling the

884
00:37:28,570 --> 00:37:25,640
kettle black

885
00:37:31,359 --> 00:37:28,580
exactly Chris we had a number of

886
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:31,369
questions asked of our roundtable

887
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:33,470
participants in the question Bank and

888
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:35,410
formed out the para cast com

889
00:37:39,220 --> 00:37:37,760
we have a minute 40 left for this

890
00:37:40,540 --> 00:37:39,230
segment that maybe you could bring up a

891
00:37:42,820 --> 00:37:40,550
question or two and we'll start to

892
00:37:45,220 --> 00:37:42,830
answer go ahead okay well here's a good

893
00:37:48,099 --> 00:37:45,230
one this one comes from burnt State

894
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:48,109
Robert is one of our our premier posters

895
00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:51,890
one of the few posters uh with more

896
00:37:57,849 --> 00:37:54,710
likes than posts actually he's up almost

897
00:37:59,800 --> 00:37:57,859
to four thousand messages posted and

898
00:38:01,390 --> 00:37:59,810
he's wondering this is kind of a just

899
00:38:02,589 --> 00:38:01,400
throw it out to the to the group here

900
00:38:04,839 --> 00:38:02,599
but if you had to name your own

901
00:38:06,700 --> 00:38:04,849
foundational pillars of ufology for

902
00:38:08,829 --> 00:38:06,710
better for worse what would be some of

903
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:08,839
the cornerstone pieces in how you learn

904
00:38:13,810 --> 00:38:11,810
to think about this field of study could

905
00:38:16,660 --> 00:38:13,820
these be people books or specific cases

906
00:38:19,420 --> 00:38:16,670
even so when we come back well we'll get

907
00:38:24,250 --> 00:38:19,430
Paul and Greg's and Gaga's view on this

908
00:38:25,810 --> 00:38:24,260
and I might mine is very simple so when

909
00:38:28,420 --> 00:38:25,820
we come back we'll uh we'll go ahead and

910
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:28,430
address that all right this is the

911
00:38:31,839 --> 00:38:29,690
beginning and we have a number of

912
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:31,849
questions from listeners and we'll try

913
00:38:35,170 --> 00:38:34,010
to get to a lot of them obviously we

914
00:38:38,290 --> 00:38:35,180
don't predict what they're going to ask

915
00:38:40,450 --> 00:38:38,300
we will predict again that we'd love you

916
00:38:42,370 --> 00:38:40,460
to really really show your support of

917
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:42,380
the power cast by joining the power cast

918
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:46,400
plus at plus dr. power cast com PL us

919
00:38:50,349 --> 00:38:48,050
dr. power cast com

920
00:38:53,770 --> 00:38:50,359
of course we feature that special

921
00:38:56,650 --> 00:38:53,780
exclusive podcast called after the power

922
00:38:58,750 --> 00:38:56,660
cast with all sorts of things that are

923
00:39:00,460 --> 00:38:58,760
unpredictable we've add show

924
00:39:03,790 --> 00:39:00,470
transcripts with more to comment takes

925
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:03,800
time our first videos and lots lots more

926
00:39:11,350 --> 00:39:07,370
to learn how to sign up go to + da Farah

927
00:39:14,380 --> 00:39:11,360
cast com+ doctor para cast comm we have

928
00:39:31,300 --> 00:39:14,390
Greg Bishop Cox Makai Paul Campbell gene

929
00:39:34,690 --> 00:39:31,310
and Chris you're in libera cos welcome

930
00:39:39,820 --> 00:39:34,700
back to the para cast the gold standard

931
00:39:47,860 --> 00:39:39,830
of paranormal radio and now here's Jane

932
00:39:51,010 --> 00:39:47,870
Steinberg the para cast 10th anniversary

933
00:39:52,570 --> 00:39:51,020
show Chris why'd you respond to the

934
00:39:55,540 --> 00:39:52,580
question that was asked and then we get

935
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:55,550
to the other members of our panel pretty

936
00:40:00,220 --> 00:39:58,490
much nothing the question was in the

937
00:40:02,290 --> 00:40:00,230
last 10 years what major changes in your

938
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:02,300
thinking about UFOs have taken place and

939
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:03,650
who or what was the source of the shift

940
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:07,040
discussed in terms of thinking about

941
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:09,650
UFOs nothing has really changed I'm

942
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:12,490
pretty stuck in the mud when it comes to

943
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:16,490
my particular out-of-the-box attempting

944
00:40:21,850 --> 00:40:18,650
to be out-of-the-box perspective I think

945
00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:21,860
some of the things that have that I can

946
00:40:28,930 --> 00:40:25,310
point to as as being you know co-host on

947
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:28,940
the show and listening to you know gosh

948
00:40:31,900 --> 00:40:30,170
at least three or four hundred guests

949
00:40:35,650 --> 00:40:31,910
since I've been involved in the show

950
00:40:38,140 --> 00:40:35,660
it's reinforced I think my view as I was

951
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:38,150
saying before that the experiencer is as

952
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:39,920
important if not more important than the

953
00:40:44,050 --> 00:40:42,250
actual experience that has reported I

954
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:44,060
think that that's something that's

955
00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:46,730
become reinforced we're seeing a

956
00:40:54,270 --> 00:40:50,990
dramatic increase in hoaxing and the

957
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:54,280
dumbing down of I think the level and

958
00:40:58,510 --> 00:40:56,810
quality of education I think out there

959
00:41:01,810 --> 00:40:58,520
in the general public about the subject

960
00:41:05,170 --> 00:41:01,820
we're seeing a real shift to delusional

961
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:05,180
thinking I think on part of the of the

962
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:06,650
as Tom Adams would say the great

963
00:41:12,340 --> 00:41:09,170
unwashed masses out there that devour

964
00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:12,350
this stuff I and I find that very

965
00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:15,640
unfortunate I think it's becoming

966
00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:18,020
increasingly more difficult for the

967
00:41:24,250 --> 00:41:20,660
average person to discern real video

968
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:24,260
footage real photographs because the

969
00:41:28,030 --> 00:41:25,760
hoaxers are getting more proficient they

970
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:28,040
have better tools and that's just

971
00:41:35,770 --> 00:41:30,970
mudding up the waters you know I I

972
00:41:37,330 --> 00:41:35,780
haven't flow about this subject in the

973
00:41:40,990 --> 00:41:37,340
last 10 years I felt a little bit

974
00:41:43,210 --> 00:41:41,000
invigorated myself the prior ten years I

975
00:41:44,860 --> 00:41:43,220
I had kind of burned out a little bit

976
00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:44,870
and I had to leave the San Luis Valley I

977
00:41:49,930 --> 00:41:46,910
had to get on with my life I started

978
00:41:54,060 --> 00:41:49,940
looking into other paranormal subjects

979
00:41:58,450 --> 00:41:54,070
so ritual the Western esoteric tradition

980
00:42:01,450 --> 00:41:58,460
other things the hauntings haunted sites

981
00:42:03,580 --> 00:42:01,460
that sort of thing and got into more

982
00:42:05,590 --> 00:42:03,590
crypto stuff I tried to get away from

983
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:05,600
the UFO and the cow thing for a while

984
00:42:12,130 --> 00:42:09,200
but for the most part now I you know my

985
00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:12,140
thinking is his once it hit a certain

986
00:42:17,530 --> 00:42:14,960
plateau I think that we're dealing with

987
00:42:20,110 --> 00:42:17,540
something that's highly mercurial and

988
00:42:22,270 --> 00:42:20,120
tricks' Trish and I don't think enough

989
00:42:24,460 --> 00:42:22,280
people really really factor that aspect

990
00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:24,470
in I know Greg and Paul do and I know

991
00:42:30,730 --> 00:42:27,710
God's is appreciative of that and but I

992
00:42:32,380 --> 00:42:30,740
just I think it's a it's very

993
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:32,390
frustrating to see people just buy

994
00:42:36,940 --> 00:42:34,850
things at face value to the other to the

995
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:36,950
extent that they do we discussed

996
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:38,710
obviously earlier in the show about

997
00:42:42,730 --> 00:42:41,090
specific cases we accept it and didn't

998
00:42:45,460 --> 00:42:42,740
accept and now we're talking about

999
00:42:47,350 --> 00:42:45,470
conclusions and such Paul Kimbo what do

1000
00:42:50,050 --> 00:42:47,360
you have to say about it well first I

1001
00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:50,060
just like to say on the previous subject

1002
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:53,030
of conversation about databases and and

1003
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:55,250
that sort of thing very quickly it's not

1004
00:42:59,680 --> 00:42:57,440
actually assuming you get your hands on

1005
00:43:03,010 --> 00:42:59,690
those archival materials it's not

1006
00:43:05,110 --> 00:43:03,020
actually that hard to digitally archive

1007
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:05,120
them it takes time to take some effort

1008
00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:07,520
and there would be an expense but if you

1009
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:09,110
were good as if you were to go to Steve

1010
00:43:12,310 --> 00:43:10,850
Bassett for instance and save the six

1011
00:43:13,990 --> 00:43:12,320
hundred thousand dollars you supposedly

1012
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:14,000
had for the Congressional fake

1013
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:16,910
congressional hearings in Washington a

1014
00:43:22,780 --> 00:43:19,250
year or two ago how about you hive off

1015
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:22,790
10% of that hey a grad student or two -

1016
00:43:26,060 --> 00:43:24,650
I take all of these materials and create

1017
00:43:28,820 --> 00:43:26,070
a digital archive

1018
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:28,830
you could actually accomplish that I

1019
00:43:33,620 --> 00:43:31,710
know because Rebecca Wise created the

1020
00:43:35,860 --> 00:43:33,630
project Bluebook archive and spent a

1021
00:43:38,990 --> 00:43:35,870
great amount of time at her own expense

1022
00:43:41,210 --> 00:43:39,000
to put those up online so they would be

1023
00:43:43,790 --> 00:43:41,220
available for as many people as wanted

1024
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:43,800
to look at them so that's one thing the

1025
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:45,210
other thing quickly I'd add about Peter

1026
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:47,370
Davenport is there's a difference

1027
00:43:51,380 --> 00:43:48,810
between evidence that you collect

1028
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:51,390
yourself and an evidence that you like

1029
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:52,890
that you go out in the field and you

1030
00:43:57,770 --> 00:43:55,650
find and evidence that people your

1031
00:43:58,840 --> 00:43:57,780
reports that people send in to you and

1032
00:44:02,360 --> 00:43:58,850
one of the problems I have with

1033
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:02,370
Davenport stance is that all of those

1034
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:04,800
reports and MUFON - all of those reports

1035
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:07,290
that they're that he's taking in the

1036
00:44:11,090 --> 00:44:09,090
intellectual property lies with the

1037
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:11,100
people who are making the reports he's

1038
00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:12,480
just the person collect and you know

1039
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:14,040
it's a valuable thing to be the person

1040
00:44:17,090 --> 00:44:15,570
who's collecting them but ultimately

1041
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:17,100
he's not the important piece of the

1042
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:19,170
puzzle the people who made the reports

1043
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:22,800
are so if the Roswell slides case or

1044
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:25,440
Edward Snowden or Chelsea Manning or any

1045
00:44:30,140 --> 00:44:26,970
of these things have taught us anything

1046
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:30,150
over the last decade it's that the 21st

1047
00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:31,890
century should be as much as possible

1048
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:34,380
about open sourcing about transparency

1049
00:44:38,690 --> 00:44:37,050
about sharing information otherwise all

1050
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:38,700
of the technology that we have is

1051
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:41,850
useless meaningless so we need to take

1052
00:44:45,530 --> 00:44:43,530
advantage of this new technology and

1053
00:44:48,050 --> 00:44:45,540
share information in all walks of life

1054
00:44:49,820 --> 00:44:48,060
which sounds ironic for a guy who works

1055
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:49,830
in an industry that relies on copyright

1056
00:44:52,910 --> 00:44:51,570
protection but like I said there's a

1057
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:52,920
difference between the stuff you create

1058
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:54,690
yourself and the stuff that maybe you

1059
00:44:58,640 --> 00:44:57,090
compile really good point Paul now this

1060
00:45:02,060 --> 00:44:58,650
part of the second part of it there in

1061
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:02,070
terms of UFOs and your thinking um who's

1062
00:45:07,370 --> 00:45:04,770
changed my thinking I would sit well

1063
00:45:10,490 --> 00:45:07,380
Nick Greg Mac you know you philosopher

1064
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:10,500
Rat Pack or whatever but Carl flock Tim

1065
00:45:15,620 --> 00:45:13,530
Printy Lance Moody Tim Herbert skeptics

1066
00:45:17,660 --> 00:45:15,630
people that challenged me over the last

1067
00:45:19,850 --> 00:45:17,670
ten years not that I was ever a believer

1068
00:45:21,860 --> 00:45:19,860
but I would put forward cases and say

1069
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,870
well look I I really think the are b-47

1070
00:45:25,460 --> 00:45:23,520
case is something special I really think

1071
00:45:27,170 --> 00:45:25,470
the Kelly Johnson case is something

1072
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:27,180
special and they would argue back

1073
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:28,890
there's a very long argument and

1074
00:45:32,510 --> 00:45:30,450
somewhere in the para cast forms years

1075
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:32,520
ago between Lance and I about the Kelly

1076
00:45:37,850 --> 00:45:35,850
Johnson case I reacted initially I guess

1077
00:45:39,890 --> 00:45:37,860
the same way that Stan like react if you

1078
00:45:41,630 --> 00:45:39,900
challenged him on mj-12

1079
00:45:43,490 --> 00:45:41,640
but slowly and surely and I'm not sure I

1080
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:43,500
completely agree with Lance on every

1081
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,930
aspect of that case but you know you you

1082
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:48,000
develop dialogue and you have to have

1083
00:45:52,250 --> 00:45:49,410
that conversation so I've come to

1084
00:45:53,390 --> 00:45:52,260
respect the skeptics I consider myself a

1085
00:45:55,700 --> 00:45:53,400
skeptic actually but I've come to

1086
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:55,710
respect fellow skeptics or even

1087
00:46:00,319 --> 00:45:58,410
debunkers much more than I do the

1088
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:00,329
believers because I find them much more

1089
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:02,010
open-minded and at least willing to

1090
00:46:06,529 --> 00:46:04,410
engage in a conversation and we saw that

1091
00:46:09,230 --> 00:46:06,539
within the Roswell slides research group

1092
00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:09,240
which was composed of those skeptics and

1093
00:46:15,079 --> 00:46:11,520
people that I would classify as leaning

1094
00:46:16,549 --> 00:46:15,089
towards believing in the ETH and we all

1095
00:46:18,829 --> 00:46:16,559
managed to work together and basically

1096
00:46:21,289 --> 00:46:18,839
solve the Roswell slides the big mystery

1097
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:21,299
within about two days because once we

1098
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:23,970
get the data that Jaime Mossad and the

1099
00:46:28,789 --> 00:46:26,490
others were hiding it was fairly easy to

1100
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:28,799
discover what was actually what it was

1101
00:46:33,049 --> 00:46:31,650
so there was no big mystery it was only

1102
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:33,059
a mystery that was created by people

1103
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:34,410
that were looking to make money off of

1104
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:36,720
it and so that kind of open sourcing and

1105
00:46:40,940 --> 00:46:38,880
cooperative venture between people with

1106
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:40,950
on other issues we all had different

1107
00:46:44,299 --> 00:46:43,049
points different points of view but on

1108
00:46:46,579 --> 00:46:44,309
that one issue we could come together

1109
00:46:48,529 --> 00:46:46,589
and we could work together to come up

1110
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:48,539
with a pretty quick solution because we

1111
00:46:52,039 --> 00:46:50,490
didn't hold anything back we didn't get

1112
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:52,049
offended we didn't get our feelings out

1113
00:46:56,269 --> 00:46:54,480
of joint and we shared information and I

1114
00:46:58,849 --> 00:46:56,279
think that's the way forward in the 21st

1115
00:47:00,559 --> 00:46:58,859
century and what guys like Davenport in

1116
00:47:02,500 --> 00:47:00,569
Bhutan are doing or looking at a 20th

1117
00:47:05,359 --> 00:47:02,510
century model that utterly failed

1118
00:47:07,490 --> 00:47:05,369
research into the UFO phenomenon because

1119
00:47:08,930 --> 00:47:07,500
it compartmentalized information amongst

1120
00:47:11,299 --> 00:47:08,940
different people and different groups

1121
00:47:13,250 --> 00:47:11,309
and the Roswell case is replete with

1122
00:47:14,930 --> 00:47:13,260
that you know yet Stan Freeman and Bill

1123
00:47:16,940 --> 00:47:14,940
Moore on one side Kevin Randle and Dodge

1124
00:47:18,170 --> 00:47:16,950
Smith on another side other researchers

1125
00:47:20,180 --> 00:47:18,180
over here and none of them would share

1126
00:47:22,940 --> 00:47:20,190
their information that's not the roadmap

1127
00:47:24,650 --> 00:47:22,950
to truth that's just a roadmap to you

1128
00:47:27,650 --> 00:47:24,660
know what we have now which is a whole

1129
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:27,660
bunch of competing maybe truths and

1130
00:47:31,609 --> 00:47:29,250
nobody knows what they are well it's

1131
00:47:33,950 --> 00:47:31,619
kind of like if you keep repeating the

1132
00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:33,960
same thing each time and expecting a

1133
00:47:38,269 --> 00:47:35,849
different result that's the definition

1134
00:47:39,890 --> 00:47:38,279
of insanity I'm like oh say someone is

1135
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:39,900
insane as a result but I think

1136
00:47:44,930 --> 00:47:42,510
disclosure is the biggest example of

1137
00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:44,940
that in terms of my thinking I started

1138
00:47:50,510 --> 00:47:47,609
out with the ETH back in the 50s when I

1139
00:47:51,470 --> 00:47:50,520
was a wee lad wee lad in Brooklyn New

1140
00:47:54,260 --> 00:47:51,480
York

1141
00:47:57,710 --> 00:47:54,270
and it's modified to basically saying

1142
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,720
there's a lot of things happening here

1143
00:48:02,090 --> 00:48:00,240
in terms of experiences and we don't

1144
00:48:04,550 --> 00:48:02,100
really fully understand all the

1145
00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:04,560
interactions yet so maybe I know less as

1146
00:48:10,430 --> 00:48:08,040
I get older how about you Greg well the

1147
00:48:13,099 --> 00:48:10,440
the thinking generally hasn't changed I

1148
00:48:15,290 --> 00:48:13,109
think that my basis was reading things

1149
00:48:20,030 --> 00:48:15,300
from people like Robert Anton Wilson

1150
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:20,040
when I was in my 20s who basically his

1151
00:48:25,790 --> 00:48:23,760
basic message is believe nothing but

1152
00:48:28,820 --> 00:48:25,800
take in all the information and weigh it

1153
00:48:31,070 --> 00:48:28,830
with your put it through your own

1154
00:48:33,310 --> 00:48:31,080
personal filters and you know and trust

1155
00:48:36,980 --> 00:48:33,320
that those filters are good and and and

1156
00:48:39,710 --> 00:48:36,990
equitable in terms of in the last 10

1157
00:48:41,870 --> 00:48:39,720
years about the only people I could

1158
00:48:43,490 --> 00:48:41,880
think of for profit burnt States one of

1159
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:43,500
them actually one of one of you're the

1160
00:48:47,300 --> 00:48:44,880
guy that asked the question and that

1161
00:48:50,750 --> 00:48:47,310
I've contacted and talked with a little

1162
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:50,760
bit he's changed my mind a little bit or

1163
00:48:55,730 --> 00:48:53,520
at least my focus and before that was

1164
00:48:58,730 --> 00:48:55,740
Bruce doin Singh who passed away

1165
00:49:01,820 --> 00:48:58,740
tragically last year but I had some

1166
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:01,830
intense conversation and communication

1167
00:49:05,390 --> 00:49:03,330
with him for about three or four months

1168
00:49:06,980 --> 00:49:05,400
let me just do the break here and we'll

1169
00:49:09,830 --> 00:49:06,990
continue with that I keep getting on

1170
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:09,840
breaks I know that with Greg Bishop Paul

1171
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:11,850
Campbell jogs makai gene and Chris

1172
00:49:25,410 --> 00:49:14,960
you're in l-pod Acosta

1173
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:25,420
[Music]

1174
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:28,400
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1175
00:49:34,090 --> 00:49:30,410
comment or question about the para cast

1176
00:49:37,660 --> 00:49:34,100
send it to news at the para cast com

1177
00:49:39,790 --> 00:49:37,670
that's news at the para cast calm and

1178
00:49:42,970 --> 00:49:39,800
don't forget to visit our famous para

1179
00:49:48,070 --> 00:49:42,980
cast community forums at forum dot the

1180
00:49:51,010 --> 00:49:48,080
para cast comm Greg unfortunately starts

1181
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:51,020
talking just before the break but it's

1182
00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:53,210
applied against him it's the Illuminati

1183
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:55,760
has plotted against Greg Bishop but

1184
00:50:01,480 --> 00:49:57,650
however this is the beginning of the

1185
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:01,490
segment so now you can continue sir you

1186
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:03,680
got ten minutes dude oh yeah actually

1187
00:50:09,310 --> 00:50:06,050
eight minutes and 50 seconds sorry who's

1188
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:09,320
counting that much but those the two

1189
00:50:13,390 --> 00:50:10,970
people I brought up at least you know in

1190
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:13,400
the last few years they kind of turned

1191
00:50:17,290 --> 00:50:15,440
my mind towards what Chris was saying is

1192
00:50:20,890 --> 00:50:17,300
that the the witness is probably more

1193
00:50:24,910 --> 00:50:20,900
important and that my opinion is changed

1194
00:50:28,690 --> 00:50:24,920
to kind of a witness centered strategy

1195
00:50:30,630 --> 00:50:28,700
and the idea that and I won't go into it

1196
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:30,640
because I have before but the idea that

1197
00:50:36,970 --> 00:50:34,160
way more than we think is going on in

1198
00:50:39,820 --> 00:50:36,980
UFO way more than we think is coming

1199
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:39,830
from us because when something strange

1200
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:42,530
happens to people their minds are

1201
00:50:46,090 --> 00:50:44,240
furiously trying to make sense of it and

1202
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:46,100
stuff it into boxes and their

1203
00:50:51,430 --> 00:50:47,690
subconscious get in what gets involved

1204
00:50:54,730 --> 00:50:51,440
and their cultural conditioning gets

1205
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:54,740
involved and I think that whatever they

1206
00:51:00,880 --> 00:50:57,770
saw whatever they experienced is what

1207
00:51:04,300 --> 00:51:00,890
their memory is and not what it was so I

1208
00:51:06,130 --> 00:51:04,310
think that there's a there's a it's like

1209
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:06,140
the blood-brain barrier or something

1210
00:51:09,940 --> 00:51:07,850
it's like the consciousness

1211
00:51:11,950 --> 00:51:09,950
subconsciousness storytelling barrier

1212
00:51:14,020 --> 00:51:11,960
whatever you want to call it I think

1213
00:51:15,190 --> 00:51:14,030
that's something we really have to look

1214
00:51:17,010 --> 00:51:15,200
at so I think we have to look at

1215
00:51:19,810 --> 00:51:17,020
ourselves more than we look at the

1216
00:51:21,490 --> 00:51:19,820
phenomenon at least for a while just to

1217
00:51:23,170 --> 00:51:21,500
see what the you know the instrument

1218
00:51:24,190 --> 00:51:23,180
that's taking in all this information we

1219
00:51:26,380 --> 00:51:24,200
got to figure out what how the

1220
00:51:28,810 --> 00:51:26,390
instrument works and how the instrument

1221
00:51:32,349 --> 00:51:28,820
might be recording measuring whatever

1222
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:32,359
you want to call it in very crude terms

1223
00:51:35,020 --> 00:51:34,490
but we have to look at that instrument

1224
00:51:37,330 --> 00:51:35,030
and

1225
00:51:39,790 --> 00:51:37,340
find out how it works actually there

1226
00:51:43,420 --> 00:51:39,800
could be manipulation going on there too

1227
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:43,430
almost in a subtle way force the the

1228
00:51:49,090 --> 00:51:46,130
experiencer to have a particular quality

1229
00:51:51,250 --> 00:51:49,100
memory so we don't even know where the

1230
00:51:52,870 --> 00:51:51,260
dividing line is whether the memory or

1231
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:52,880
the experience is pure whether it's

1232
00:51:57,850 --> 00:51:55,040
being adulterated we don't know I think

1233
00:51:59,830 --> 00:51:57,860
we adulterated more than the for some

1234
00:52:01,570 --> 00:51:59,840
reason I get my intuition is that we

1235
00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:01,580
adulterated more than the phenomenon

1236
00:52:06,460 --> 00:52:04,160
ever could for the most part I would

1237
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:06,470
have to talk to many people who you know

1238
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:08,330
are absolutely convinced or I'd have to

1239
00:52:11,140 --> 00:52:09,650
go through it myself you know if I went

1240
00:52:12,820 --> 00:52:11,150
through something like this myself I'm

1241
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:12,830
sure you know I would hope not

1242
00:52:16,780 --> 00:52:14,510
but I'm sure a lot of my opinions with

1243
00:52:18,340 --> 00:52:16,790
Jane I've never had any kind of close

1244
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:18,350
encounter like that at least not that I

1245
00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:19,040
remember

1246
00:52:24,220 --> 00:52:21,440
and that might change my opinions I have

1247
00:52:26,860 --> 00:52:24,230
no idea but for right now I've got this

1248
00:52:28,750 --> 00:52:26,870
very strong intuition that a lot of it

1249
00:52:30,220 --> 00:52:28,760
is coming from us not saying that we're

1250
00:52:32,590 --> 00:52:30,230
making it up or that it's you know a

1251
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:32,600
psychosis or anything like that but the

1252
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:34,730
experience the remember DEQ's perience

1253
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:36,890
which is all that we have I think most

1254
00:52:41,500 --> 00:52:38,330
of it comes from us we have to take a

1255
00:52:45,330 --> 00:52:41,510
look at that cogs your point of view I

1256
00:52:48,850 --> 00:52:45,340
just wanted to quickly come back to a

1257
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:48,860
story that Stanton Friedman often

1258
00:52:54,780 --> 00:52:52,250
relates about when he was a young school

1259
00:52:58,240 --> 00:52:54,790
pupil and he got into an argument with

1260
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:58,250
his teacher who said one thing about the

1261
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:01,040
solar system erever and stanton argued

1262
00:53:06,370 --> 00:53:04,490
his case saying that she was wrong as it

1263
00:53:09,790 --> 00:53:06,380
turned out he was right and she was

1264
00:53:13,540 --> 00:53:09,800
wrong but it it that was a thing in

1265
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:13,550
which solidified in him early on that I

1266
00:53:22,210 --> 00:53:18,010
should I better be sure of my facts and

1267
00:53:24,700 --> 00:53:22,220
mj-12 aside I think you know we all

1268
00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:24,710
applaud Stanton because he's done the

1269
00:53:29,260 --> 00:53:27,110
legwork in so many libraries and

1270
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:29,270
archives and such like that and really

1271
00:53:37,090 --> 00:53:32,480
and the most important thing I suppose

1272
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:37,100
is to be sure of your data and I know

1273
00:53:42,940 --> 00:53:40,130
the kind of more esoteric aspects of the

1274
00:53:45,310 --> 00:53:42,950
ufology I think most of all of us on

1275
00:53:48,020 --> 00:53:45,320
this show today are kind of post

1276
00:53:51,470 --> 00:53:48,030
nuts-and-bolts people we probably all

1277
00:53:55,010 --> 00:53:51,480
started thinking you know that it was a

1278
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:55,020
nuts-and-bolts answer and and I think

1279
00:54:00,670 --> 00:53:57,930
probably probably many of the cases like

1280
00:54:03,740 --> 00:54:00,680
the 7 or 1 unexplained cases in a

1281
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:03,750
special report 14 I wouldn't be

1282
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:06,810
surprised if many of them had some high

1283
00:54:11,180 --> 00:54:09,330
strange aspects but maybe they weren't

1284
00:54:14,180 --> 00:54:11,190
mentioned at the time because they just

1285
00:54:17,270 --> 00:54:14,190
seemed so crazy and I think a lot of

1286
00:54:19,850 --> 00:54:17,280
people's thinking these days is is they

1287
00:54:23,330 --> 00:54:19,860
may have been the most important parts

1288
00:54:27,050 --> 00:54:23,340
of the experience and there's definitely

1289
00:54:29,710 --> 00:54:27,060
something going on and I think with

1290
00:54:33,410 --> 00:54:29,720
human consciousness it's definitely uh

1291
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:33,420
it's definitely an interaction and some

1292
00:54:38,780 --> 00:54:35,250
symbiotic thing I don't know how to

1293
00:54:42,290 --> 00:54:38,790
explain it but the more the more I read

1294
00:54:46,820 --> 00:54:42,300
and see and listen to this subject the

1295
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:46,830
more I'm sure that the answer is so

1296
00:54:51,950 --> 00:54:49,770
strange a bit like how I said I'd be

1297
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:51,960
very disappointed if it's just aliens

1298
00:55:00,050 --> 00:54:55,770
coming from another planet and it I just

1299
00:55:03,590 --> 00:55:00,060
think it is so complex and we have to be

1300
00:55:05,690 --> 00:55:03,600
sure of what we can't be sure of but not

1301
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:05,700
exclude the things that seem

1302
00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:08,850
uncomfortable or ill-fitting because if

1303
00:55:15,980 --> 00:55:12,420
they are reported as true as much as the

1304
00:55:18,220 --> 00:55:15,990
other parts then no matter no matter how

1305
00:55:21,260 --> 00:55:18,230
weird I think we have to take all

1306
00:55:23,870 --> 00:55:21,270
aspects into account that that's the way

1307
00:55:26,930 --> 00:55:23,880
I've gone personally and I'm not

1308
00:55:28,910 --> 00:55:26,940
researcher I'm just a guy who reads

1309
00:55:33,050 --> 00:55:28,920
books listens to shows and stuff like

1310
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:33,060
that and but I think most of us here

1311
00:55:39,740 --> 00:55:36,090
today are what I would call post

1312
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:39,750
nuts-and-bolts I was going to stand up

1313
00:55:48,140 --> 00:55:43,770
and say hey is as gods was talking it

1314
00:55:49,610 --> 00:55:48,150
for me to just go ahead I think you

1315
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:49,620
bring up a really good point gods it's

1316
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:52,290
it's something that I've been saying for

1317
00:55:59,180 --> 00:55:55,920
a while noticing that people tend to

1318
00:56:01,019 --> 00:55:59,190
leave out uh I'm not saying this happens

1319
00:56:03,179 --> 00:56:01,029
on every siding or

1320
00:56:04,890 --> 00:56:03,189
encounter event or encounter with a

1321
00:56:07,559 --> 00:56:04,900
crypto creature whatever but it seems

1322
00:56:11,549 --> 00:56:07,569
that there's a significant number where

1323
00:56:13,439 --> 00:56:11,559
a particular nonsensical absolutely

1324
00:56:16,769 --> 00:56:13,449
head-scratching doesn't make any sense

1325
00:56:19,009 --> 00:56:16,779
will negate your impression of the

1326
00:56:23,579 --> 00:56:19,019
entire experience or some little fact

1327
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:23,589
that is is often left out people don't

1328
00:56:26,759 --> 00:56:25,359
want to mention that one little detail

1329
00:56:28,679 --> 00:56:26,769
because then it will call the whole

1330
00:56:30,329 --> 00:56:28,689
experience in the question I think GOG

1331
00:56:32,729 --> 00:56:30,339
is you write that one little detail

1332
00:56:35,819 --> 00:56:32,739
could be crucial I've had people come up

1333
00:56:37,380 --> 00:56:35,829
to me days weeks months years later and

1334
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:37,390
say remember that sighting I told you

1335
00:56:40,679 --> 00:56:39,130
about well there's one thing I kind of

1336
00:56:42,509 --> 00:56:40,689
didn't want to tell you but I feel

1337
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:42,519
comfortable enough to tell you now that

1338
00:56:47,759 --> 00:56:46,089
sort of thing and that's it's uh I think

1339
00:56:50,009 --> 00:56:47,769
it's important I don't know what do you

1340
00:56:52,859 --> 00:56:50,019
guys think yeah I think research or

1341
00:56:55,140 --> 00:56:52,869
filtering is another huge problem and I

1342
00:56:56,849 --> 00:56:55,150
don't know how to get rid of that

1343
00:56:59,759 --> 00:56:56,859
filtering except like what Chris said is

1344
00:57:00,689 --> 00:56:59,769
just listen and accept and say look if

1345
00:57:03,630 --> 00:57:00,699
there's something there that you think

1346
00:57:05,729 --> 00:57:03,640
is extremely strange that doesn't fit or

1347
00:57:06,989 --> 00:57:05,739
you're embarrassed er about tell me that

1348
00:57:09,209 --> 00:57:06,999
- I mean you're going to be anonymous

1349
00:57:11,130 --> 00:57:09,219
anyway so let's put that in because that

1350
00:57:12,659 --> 00:57:11,140
might help other people understand

1351
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:12,669
what's going on and maybe give you some

1352
00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:14,319
answers because a lot of times on these

1353
00:57:17,789 --> 00:57:16,329
people are telling you these things all

1354
00:57:19,919 --> 00:57:17,799
they want to do is get it off their

1355
00:57:21,659 --> 00:57:19,929
chest it's about 90% of the problems

1356
00:57:23,459 --> 00:57:21,669
they want to say something to somebody

1357
00:57:25,289 --> 00:57:23,469
that's not going to laugh at them or

1358
00:57:27,959 --> 00:57:25,299
look at them funny I mean I'm sure Chris

1359
00:57:29,609 --> 00:57:27,969
and Lolly guys have had this thing where

1360
00:57:31,199 --> 00:57:29,619
you know you're you're at your table or

1361
00:57:32,849 --> 00:57:31,209
whatever it a convention and somebody

1362
00:57:34,949 --> 00:57:32,859
comes up and just starts talking to you

1363
00:57:36,479 --> 00:57:34,959
and when they're done they don't want a

1364
00:57:38,099 --> 00:57:36,489
reaction they don't want they don't even

1365
00:57:40,169 --> 00:57:38,109
want you to explain it they just wanted

1366
00:57:41,729 --> 00:57:40,179
to they just wanted to say it so I think

1367
00:57:44,189 --> 00:57:41,739
that's part of you know that might be

1368
00:57:46,649 --> 00:57:44,199
part of the important part of the

1369
00:57:49,439 --> 00:57:46,659
equation yeah by great we've got a lot

1370
00:57:51,329 --> 00:57:49,449
more to talk about and the experience is

1371
00:57:54,149 --> 00:57:51,339
going to lead to one of the most

1372
00:57:56,459 --> 00:57:54,159
controversial aspects of UFOs especially

1373
00:57:57,719 --> 00:57:56,469
in terms of the power cast over the

1374
00:58:00,989 --> 00:57:57,729
years and we'll get to at the moment

1375
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:00,999
with Paul Kimball Greg Bishop cogs Makai

1376
00:58:05,950 --> 00:58:04,290
gene and Chris you're in the ten year

1377
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:05,960
para cast

1378
00:58:26,330 --> 00:58:22,940
hey this is Marie D Jones the author of

1379
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:26,340
this book is from the future and you are

1380
00:58:40,310 --> 00:58:28,890
listening to the podcast the gold

1381
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:40,320
standard of paranormal radio ahh 10

1382
00:58:45,410 --> 00:58:42,450
years of the para cast with Gene and

1383
00:58:47,300 --> 00:58:45,420
Chris Paul Kimball GOx McCoy Greg Bishop

1384
00:58:50,690 --> 00:58:47,310
all right I'm gonna bring up the subject

1385
00:58:52,220 --> 00:58:50,700
and Paul I think you get a sense of what

1386
00:58:54,980 --> 00:58:52,230
we're talking about here let me just

1387
00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:54,990
tell the anecdote here so we were going

1388
00:59:00,050 --> 00:58:56,760
to have two prominent abduction

1389
00:59:02,540 --> 00:59:00,060
researchers on the power cafe in 2010

1390
00:59:04,670 --> 00:59:02,550
and they both said as you recall and you

1391
00:59:07,070 --> 00:59:04,680
were very gracious about it we're not

1392
00:59:08,780 --> 00:59:07,080
going to go on the show with that Paul

1393
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:08,790
Kimball character he doesn't believe us

1394
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:12,810
to remember that I do yes and I think

1395
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:14,370
part of it is that you were a

1396
00:59:20,780 --> 00:59:17,130
disbeliever but also you had said you

1397
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:20,790
wouldn't allow those two people dr.

1398
00:59:25,490 --> 00:59:22,890
David Jacobs and Budd Hopkins to

1399
00:59:27,590 --> 00:59:25,500
hypnotize you and I agree I wouldn't

1400
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:27,600
allow anybody to hypnotize me because I

1401
00:59:32,450 --> 00:59:29,730
I wouldn't know what was going to happen

1402
00:59:34,130 --> 00:59:32,460
but let me ask you Paul Campbell do you

1403
00:59:37,070 --> 00:59:34,140
believe at all that any of these

1404
00:59:39,770 --> 00:59:37,080
abduction scenarios we're not talking

1405
00:59:43,310 --> 00:59:39,780
about aliens or any specific explanation

1406
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:43,320
have any value in terms of something

1407
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:46,050
strange going on of course I never and

1408
00:59:51,410 --> 00:59:48,000
I've never suggested anything different

1409
00:59:52,790 --> 00:59:51,420
my problem and without going to down

1410
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:52,800
that rabbit hole my problems with the

1411
00:59:57,860 --> 00:59:55,130
late Budd Hopkins and and David Jacobs

1412
00:59:59,960 --> 00:59:57,870
relate to their methodology and how they

1413
01:00:02,570 --> 00:59:59,970
act with the people that they're dealing

1414
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:02,580
with which i think is irresponsible but

1415
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:05,250
in terms of the and I think damages the

1416
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:08,970
actual looking into of I guess what you

1417
01:00:11,540 --> 01:00:10,290
can call the abduction phenomenon

1418
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:11,550
because I can't think of another name

1419
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:14,370
the experiential phenomenon there you go

1420
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:17,130
because you know the human history is

1421
01:00:23,900 --> 01:00:20,570
replete with stories and examples

1422
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:23,910
usually before the 20th century filtered

1423
01:00:27,089 --> 01:00:25,650
through some sort of religious context

1424
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:27,099
of

1425
01:00:30,299 --> 01:00:28,930
tact yeah let's call it the contact

1426
01:00:33,450 --> 01:00:30,309
experience there you go I like that

1427
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:33,460
better where people would talk about all

1428
01:00:37,259 --> 01:00:35,049
sorts of strange things I mean I think

1429
01:00:38,940 --> 01:00:37,269
I've talked about I've written about in

1430
01:00:41,849 --> 01:00:38,950
my book I think I've talked about on the

1431
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:41,859
show years ago a Canadian evangelist

1432
01:00:46,349 --> 01:00:44,130
named Henry Allen who was a

1433
01:00:48,059 --> 01:00:46,359
transformative figure in Canadian

1434
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:48,069
history in the late 18th century his

1435
01:00:51,509 --> 01:00:49,450
religious figure and while you guys were

1436
01:00:54,450 --> 01:00:51,519
fighting revolution up here in the

1437
01:00:56,190 --> 01:00:54,460
maritime colonies we were undergoing a

1438
01:00:57,900 --> 01:00:56,200
great spiritual awakening that actually

1439
01:01:00,839 --> 01:00:57,910
call it the Great Awakening anyway

1440
01:01:03,269 --> 01:01:00,849
Allen left behind a journal of his

1441
01:01:05,130 --> 01:01:03,279
experiences and it's one of the primary

1442
01:01:07,950 --> 01:01:05,140
it's one few primary documents from that

1443
01:01:11,309 --> 01:01:07,960
time period in Canadian history and he

1444
01:01:13,859 --> 01:01:11,319
describes in great length what he called

1445
01:01:16,319 --> 01:01:13,869
his conversion experience there are a

1446
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:16,329
few examples of Allen's convert when he

1447
01:01:20,339 --> 01:01:17,650
was doing his conversion thing he wrote

1448
01:01:22,529 --> 01:01:20,349
about being wrapped up in God ravished

1449
01:01:24,569 --> 01:01:22,539
by the spirit I mean these he's out in

1450
01:01:27,269 --> 01:01:24,579
the field these were very physical

1451
01:01:31,529 --> 01:01:27,279
things that were happening to him so if

1452
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:31,539
you were to flash-forward him 250 or so

1453
01:01:37,799 --> 01:01:35,170
years into the modern era you might view

1454
01:01:40,229 --> 01:01:37,809
those experiences given the way we look

1455
01:01:42,359 --> 01:01:40,239
at things now less in a religious sense

1456
01:01:43,709 --> 01:01:42,369
although many people still do but

1457
01:01:46,349 --> 01:01:43,719
depending on where you are and who you

1458
01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:46,359
are you might sort of view them more in

1459
01:01:50,670 --> 01:01:49,150
a technological sense and dare we say an

1460
01:01:54,059 --> 01:01:50,680
alien sense you might filter it through

1461
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:54,069
that prism of understanding it doesn't

1462
01:01:59,099 --> 01:01:56,410
change the nature of the experience what

1463
01:02:01,499 --> 01:01:59,109
he described I know people in my own

1464
01:02:03,900 --> 01:02:01,509
life who are who do still filter through

1465
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:03,910
an even a religious filter and they

1466
01:02:06,450 --> 01:02:04,930
still view it as an evangelical

1467
01:02:08,999 --> 01:02:06,460
religious experience where they have

1468
01:02:11,219 --> 01:02:09,009
direct contact with God maybe it is or

1469
01:02:13,229 --> 01:02:11,229
maybe they're having contact with space

1470
01:02:15,509 --> 01:02:13,239
aliens or some form of what I call an

1471
01:02:16,769 --> 01:02:15,519
advanced non-human intelligence but I

1472
01:02:19,529 --> 01:02:16,779
choose not to characterize as a

1473
01:02:20,700 --> 01:02:19,539
particular thing but the experience all

1474
01:02:23,579 --> 01:02:20,710
of these people are having experiences

1475
01:02:25,410 --> 01:02:23,589
and so that's you know that was always

1476
01:02:26,940 --> 01:02:25,420
my problem with the abduction thing

1477
01:02:29,849 --> 01:02:26,950
where they would try and pigeonhole

1478
01:02:32,190 --> 01:02:29,859
these what I consider very interesting

1479
01:02:34,709 --> 01:02:32,200
very high strangeness experiences into

1480
01:02:36,479 --> 01:02:34,719
one particular category and then lead

1481
01:02:39,539 --> 01:02:36,489
the people who had the experiences down

1482
01:02:40,980 --> 01:02:39,549
that road and sort of interpret for them

1483
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:40,990
what it is they

1484
01:02:43,980 --> 01:02:42,730
and then a saw and then they would come

1485
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:43,990
to believe while it had to be space

1486
01:02:48,450 --> 01:02:45,730
aliens because that's what I'm being

1487
01:02:49,890 --> 01:02:48,460
told it is whereas you know in a hundred

1488
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:49,900
years ago we stood that with these

1489
01:02:53,100 --> 01:02:51,280
experiences and say well I had to be God

1490
01:02:55,710 --> 01:02:53,110
had to be religious you need to join our

1491
01:02:57,330 --> 01:02:55,720
church and I think there's a much better

1492
01:02:59,190 --> 01:02:57,340
way so that was my problem with Jacobs

1493
01:03:01,080 --> 01:02:59,200
and Hopkins never that I discounted the

1494
01:03:03,060 --> 01:03:01,090
experiences of these people because I

1495
01:03:05,490 --> 01:03:03,070
don't in fact I find them fascinating

1496
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:05,500
what I discount is the methodology of

1497
01:03:11,490 --> 01:03:08,530
people who want to pigeonhole them into

1498
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:11,500
a particular police mechanism and that

1499
01:03:15,930 --> 01:03:13,690
for me was Jacobson Hopkins and others

1500
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:15,940
like them they get the abduction

1501
01:03:21,420 --> 01:03:18,850
experiences they expect to get and they

1502
01:03:24,300 --> 01:03:21,430
kind of attract the results that they

1503
01:03:26,820 --> 01:03:24,310
receive God's what's your feeling well I

1504
01:03:29,609 --> 01:03:26,830
think I posted in the forum just the

1505
01:03:33,590 --> 01:03:29,619
other day that and if we're to believe

1506
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:33,600
anything about the use of hypnosis and

1507
01:03:38,490 --> 01:03:36,250
recovering memories of suppose a daily

1508
01:03:41,730 --> 01:03:38,500
an abduction or whatever it actually is

1509
01:03:47,490 --> 01:03:41,740
I think it should only be done by people

1510
01:03:49,620 --> 01:03:47,500
and practitioners of hypnosis who don't

1511
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:49,630
have an iron in the fire you know not

1512
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:52,770
interested in ufology and certainly have

1513
01:04:01,560 --> 01:03:57,330
zero higher knowledge of the case before

1514
01:04:04,590 --> 01:04:01,570
conducting the hypnosis and because to

1515
01:04:07,770 --> 01:04:04,600
have people like Budd Hopkins and David

1516
01:04:09,810 --> 01:04:07,780
Jacobs who are almost you know they

1517
01:04:12,270 --> 01:04:09,820
always ask us was kind of just saying

1518
01:04:14,970 --> 01:04:12,280
they always seem to get kind of the the

1519
01:04:17,940 --> 01:04:14,980
same end result no I'm not accusing them

1520
01:04:20,849 --> 01:04:17,950
of deliberately leading witnesses but if

1521
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:20,859
why not maybe you should because I asked

1522
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:23,770
David Jacobs about leading witnesses and

1523
01:04:27,570 --> 01:04:25,810
he said no it doesn't matter well I

1524
01:04:30,359 --> 01:04:27,580
think it no he said he does it on

1525
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:30,369
purpose to see if they'll respond all

1526
01:04:33,570 --> 01:04:32,050
accuse them all accuse them of that I've

1527
01:04:35,730 --> 01:04:33,580
read some of the transcripts they are

1528
01:04:37,890 --> 01:04:35,740
here is my legal opinion deliberately

1529
01:04:39,660 --> 01:04:37,900
leading witnesses it's the kind of

1530
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:39,670
questioning that would not but this you

1531
01:04:43,349 --> 01:04:41,290
know Jacobson Hopkins are not the only

1532
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:43,359
ones you know generally speaking most

1533
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:46,810
UFO researchers have been lousy witness

1534
01:04:50,910 --> 01:04:49,090
interviewers because there is a skill

1535
01:04:52,740 --> 01:04:50,920
set that they teach you at either law

1536
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:52,750
school or police officers learn it or

1537
01:04:57,630 --> 01:04:54,850
historians learn it I took oral research

1538
01:04:59,100 --> 01:04:57,640
methodology in my grad studies there's a

1539
01:05:01,440 --> 01:04:59,110
way to ask questions the type of

1540
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:01,450
question to ask to elicit the proper

1541
01:05:05,550 --> 01:05:03,250
answer not contaminate the witness and

1542
01:05:07,230 --> 01:05:05,560
as much as I love Stan not to pick on

1543
01:05:08,910 --> 01:05:07,240
Stan but as much as I love Stan Stan was

1544
01:05:10,620 --> 01:05:08,920
not trained in that he's very good at

1545
01:05:12,510 --> 01:05:10,630
some things nuclear physics he's far

1546
01:05:14,790 --> 01:05:12,520
ahead of me but in terms of being able

1547
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:14,800
to ask questions none of these guys were

1548
01:05:19,470 --> 01:05:17,290
really trained or had experience in it

1549
01:05:21,870 --> 01:05:19,480
and I think that contaminated led to the

1550
01:05:24,330 --> 01:05:21,880
contamination of an entire generation or

1551
01:05:25,740 --> 01:05:24,340
two of witnesses and Hopkins and Jacobs

1552
01:05:28,110 --> 01:05:25,750
are just the most perhaps to me

1553
01:05:29,910 --> 01:05:28,120
egregious examples but it you know it

1554
01:05:31,950 --> 01:05:29,920
was happening throughout UFO research

1555
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:31,960
you know from the very beginning really

1556
01:05:37,140 --> 01:05:34,510
you know we need people who have no

1557
01:05:40,380 --> 01:05:37,150
interest in you or follow G whatsoever

1558
01:05:42,810 --> 01:05:40,390
and have no idea that this person is

1559
01:05:45,180 --> 01:05:42,820
claiming an abduction or ever is you

1560
01:05:47,790 --> 01:05:45,190
just say oh this person is having

1561
01:05:49,770 --> 01:05:47,800
difficulty dealing with a you know a

1562
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:49,780
certain events and a certain night and

1563
01:05:53,850 --> 01:05:51,970
that's all we should know and then it

1564
01:05:56,310 --> 01:05:53,860
should be taken from there but to use

1565
01:05:58,770 --> 01:05:56,320
people who already have formed you know

1566
01:06:00,930 --> 01:05:58,780
the idea that this goes on alien

1567
01:06:04,020 --> 01:06:00,940
abduction and experiments or whatever is

1568
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:04,030
a complete mistake from the get-go no

1569
01:06:11,460 --> 01:06:06,640
well we have of course dr. Benjamin

1570
01:06:14,490 --> 01:06:11,470
Simon who hypnotized the hills so there

1571
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:14,500
is that he supposedly had no leanings

1572
01:06:19,170 --> 01:06:17,530
one way or the other about UFOs well he

1573
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:19,180
kind of couldn't because I hadn't been

1574
01:06:25,230 --> 01:06:22,000
done before all this regression for that

1575
01:06:26,910 --> 01:06:25,240
so he was clean in my opinion I would

1576
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:26,920
just like that just on the thing about

1577
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:28,000
hypnosis

1578
01:06:36,090 --> 01:06:33,610
modification baseball players find it

1579
01:06:38,550 --> 01:06:36,100
for instance quite useful I think I what

1580
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:38,560
I do tend to dismiss hypnosis for is

1581
01:06:43,590 --> 01:06:41,290
memory recovery and the criminal law

1582
01:06:45,690 --> 01:06:43,600
there's any number of cases over the

1583
01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:45,700
last thirty years where usually

1584
01:06:51,030 --> 01:06:47,920
involving sexual abuse cases alleged

1585
01:06:53,940 --> 01:06:51,040
sexual abuse cases where memory was

1586
01:06:56,070 --> 01:06:53,950
elicited through hypnosis and it turned

1587
01:06:58,410 --> 01:06:56,080
out to be wrong and so I think hypnosis

1588
01:06:59,880 --> 01:06:58,420
is a lousy tool for memory recovery I

1589
01:07:01,410 --> 01:06:59,890
don't think it's appropriate for n valet

1590
01:07:03,450 --> 01:07:01,420
I believe is said the exact same thing

1591
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:03,460
so I'm not I'm not reinventing the wheel

1592
01:07:08,059 --> 01:07:05,920
valets been critical of the use of

1593
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:08,069
hypnosis in memory recovery for

1594
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:11,049
what I think hypnosis is useful for is

1595
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:12,970
behavior modification and ironically

1596
01:07:17,039 --> 01:07:14,770
enough I think that's exactly what the

1597
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:17,049
abduction researchers are engaged in now

1598
01:07:21,029 --> 01:07:19,210
in honor of our 10th anniversary this

1599
01:07:24,750 --> 01:07:21,039
week we're going to have a special

1600
01:07:27,390 --> 01:07:24,760
double length episode of the after the

1601
01:07:30,990 --> 01:07:27,400
para cast podcast featuring our guest

1602
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:31,000
panel if you want to hear after the

1603
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:33,010
power cast you've got to join the power

1604
01:07:38,279 --> 01:07:36,130
cast plus so please visit plus dot the

1605
01:07:41,730 --> 01:07:38,289
power cast comm for more information

1606
01:07:44,430 --> 01:07:41,740
about the power cast plus plus dr. power

1607
01:07:46,799 --> 01:07:44,440
cast com we also supply an ant free

1608
01:07:49,740 --> 01:07:46,809
version of this show show transcripts

1609
01:07:52,470 --> 01:07:49,750
videos and more we're going to modify

1610
01:07:53,940 --> 01:07:52,480
your behavior right now listeners we

1611
01:07:57,089 --> 01:07:53,950
haven't figured out how yet we've got

1612
01:08:02,830 --> 01:07:57,099
Paul Kimball gags Makai Greg Bishop gene

1613
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:11,640
[Music]

1614
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:13,330
this is Micah Hanks to the graylien

1615
01:08:17,310 --> 01:08:15,250
report and you're listening to the para

1616
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:17,320
cast the gold standard of paranormal

1617
01:08:25,609 --> 01:08:17,970
radio

1618
01:08:30,689 --> 01:08:28,829
Greg Bishop Paul Campbell GOx Makai Jean

1619
01:08:35,220 --> 01:08:30,699
and Chris the tenth anniversary show

1620
01:08:37,589 --> 01:08:35,230
focusing yeah let's applaud okay some

1621
01:08:39,870 --> 01:08:37,599
people might feel relieved gene you did

1622
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:39,880
it I don't know how but you did I

1623
01:08:44,729 --> 01:08:41,920
haven't figured out what I've done yet

1624
01:08:46,169 --> 01:08:44,739
but maybe in another ten years I comes

1625
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:46,179
with an answer we're trying to look at

1626
01:08:51,089 --> 01:08:48,730
the abduction experiences and trying to

1627
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:51,099
see if we can find anything here and

1628
01:08:56,729 --> 01:08:53,290
again it's still all about the cultural

1629
01:08:58,649 --> 01:08:56,739
meme which is today it has to be aliens

1630
01:09:00,749 --> 01:08:58,659
and a hundred years from now it will be

1631
01:09:03,059 --> 01:09:00,759
something else and we know what it was a

1632
01:09:05,819 --> 01:09:03,069
hundred years ago well I'd like to chime

1633
01:09:09,049 --> 01:09:05,829
in here just a little bit on this having

1634
01:09:12,299 --> 01:09:09,059
had a regression session with the first

1635
01:09:14,579 --> 01:09:12,309
licensed hypnotherapist I think in the

1636
01:09:17,999 --> 01:09:14,589
United States dr. Ivar Berkman I was 13

1637
01:09:20,129 --> 01:09:18,009
I was never allowed to see the results

1638
01:09:24,599 --> 01:09:20,139
of my regression there was some deep

1639
01:09:27,149 --> 01:09:24,609
probing into my pre-adoptive life I was

1640
01:09:30,059 --> 01:09:27,159
adopted when I was five and I was never

1641
01:09:33,180 --> 01:09:30,069
allowed to go back there that was never

1642
01:09:35,700 --> 01:09:33,190
allowed to hear the recording so I've

1643
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:35,710
always wondered about that but the point

1644
01:09:40,589 --> 01:09:37,170
I was going to make here is that

1645
01:09:43,260 --> 01:09:40,599
hypnosis I think is like gasoline and

1646
01:09:47,339 --> 01:09:43,270
when you have an emotional experience

1647
01:09:49,019 --> 01:09:47,349
that has a deep subconscious impact on

1648
01:09:52,249 --> 01:09:49,029
the individual if you have an experience

1649
01:09:55,399 --> 01:09:52,259
that's really that allows emotional

1650
01:09:58,140 --> 01:09:55,409
elements to well up I think that by

1651
01:09:59,910 --> 01:09:58,150
improperly regressing somebody you're

1652
01:10:02,549 --> 01:09:59,920
throwing gasoline on a fire and that's

1653
01:10:05,220 --> 01:10:02,559
that's where you could have a very

1654
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:05,230
fertile ground for leading witnesses for

1655
01:10:10,350 --> 01:10:08,050
witnesses to their hidden fears wants

1656
01:10:13,649 --> 01:10:10,360
and desires may come out in equality and

1657
01:10:17,129 --> 01:10:13,659
the languaging of what comes out of the

1658
01:10:19,109 --> 01:10:17,139
regressive state and this is something

1659
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:19,119
that you don't hear much about you know

1660
01:10:22,530 --> 01:10:20,320
people don't talk about this much but

1661
01:10:24,540 --> 01:10:22,540
but whenever you hit hypnotized somebody

1662
01:10:26,910 --> 01:10:24,550
about something deeply emotional and

1663
01:10:30,270 --> 01:10:26,920
that touches some sort of primal primal

1664
01:10:33,450 --> 01:10:30,280
urges and strikes to the soul of their

1665
01:10:35,879 --> 01:10:33,460
emotional body it's really really

1666
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:35,889
delicate territory and I think that it's

1667
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:36,450
very

1668
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:40,530
hypnotized a witness and say what color

1669
01:10:43,970 --> 01:10:42,690
was the car do you remember the license

1670
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:43,980
number do you remember the color of the

1671
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:46,170
hair that sort of thing that's kind of

1672
01:10:50,810 --> 01:10:48,300
done in a very sort of objective sort of

1673
01:10:53,270 --> 01:10:50,820
dispassionate way as opposed to somebody

1674
01:10:56,420 --> 01:10:53,280
that's had this this this you know what

1675
01:10:59,420 --> 01:10:56,430
they think is a horrifying experience so

1676
01:11:03,740 --> 01:10:59,430
I think the emotional element of the

1677
01:11:06,530 --> 01:11:03,750
witness or the experiencer is is is

1678
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:06,540
treated I think a little callously by

1679
01:11:09,980 --> 01:11:07,770
the before-mentioned

1680
01:11:12,890 --> 01:11:09,990
investigators and others that's why I

1681
01:11:15,980 --> 01:11:12,900
think people like Barbara lamb and Ally

1682
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:15,990
Oh sprinkle and in a lesser way Deborah

1683
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:17,850
Lindemann and and others I think they

1684
01:11:22,460 --> 01:11:20,370
they ratchet down that aspect but then

1685
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:22,470
they sometimes go too much in the other

1686
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:23,130
direction

1687
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:27,330
and try to make it all okay so again

1688
01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:30,570
I've been so just on the fence and this

1689
01:11:36,410 --> 01:11:32,450
whole thing and I really not commented

1690
01:11:38,450 --> 01:11:36,420
too much beyond my comments here is

1691
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:38,460
something I just kind of stay away from

1692
01:11:43,820 --> 01:11:41,610
it just breeds emotions Chris we have a

1693
01:11:46,220 --> 01:11:43,830
lot of questions from listeners this is

1694
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:46,230
the final third roughly of the episode

1695
01:11:50,350 --> 01:11:49,410
maybe ask a couple more yeah we do have

1696
01:11:53,930 --> 01:11:50,360
some good ones

1697
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:53,940
here's one from chuckleberry Finn and he

1698
01:11:59,210 --> 01:11:56,730
has been a longtime poster all the way

1699
01:12:01,400 --> 01:11:59,220
almost back to the beginning and he

1700
01:12:04,580 --> 01:12:01,410
comes out occasionally with some very

1701
01:12:07,550 --> 01:12:04,590
very well when he does come out in post

1702
01:12:09,740 --> 01:12:07,560
he generally does it here at forum dr

1703
01:12:11,990 --> 01:12:09,750
parra cast calm and the question bank

1704
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:12,000
where our listeners can you know ask

1705
01:12:17,420 --> 01:12:14,850
questions of our guests and here's one

1706
01:12:20,150 --> 01:12:17,430
for Greg and he's wondering what your

1707
01:12:21,860 --> 01:12:20,160
top favorite books are not necessarily

1708
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:21,870
UFO books just push books you like

1709
01:12:28,460 --> 01:12:25,650
fiction nonfiction whatever um well

1710
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:28,470
that's pretty easy one of my favorites

1711
01:12:35,630 --> 01:12:30,930
is you can't win which was written by a

1712
01:12:37,550 --> 01:12:35,640
guy his name is uh black I can't read

1713
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:37,560
Jack Black not not the one everybody

1714
01:12:42,710 --> 01:12:40,130
thinks up and it was a it was a

1715
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:42,720
pseudonym this was written in the 1920s

1716
01:12:47,300 --> 01:12:44,880
it was about a it's William Burroughs

1717
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:47,310
favorite book it's just about a guy that

1718
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:49,170
was a career criminal starting out in

1719
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:50,370
the late 1800s

1720
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:53,130
and into probably nineteen twenty or so

1721
01:12:58,100 --> 01:12:55,650
and it's just a fascinating book and

1722
01:13:01,460 --> 01:12:58,110
I've read it probably ten times another

1723
01:13:04,780 --> 01:13:01,470
one of my favorites is and Chris knows

1724
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:04,790
this is a the story of Cabeza de Vaca

1725
01:13:12,020 --> 01:13:09,090
about a Spanish conquistador who was

1726
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:12,030
basically shipwrecked in Florida and the

1727
01:13:16,970 --> 01:13:15,210
late 1500s and wandered through the

1728
01:13:19,580 --> 01:13:16,980
United States or what would become the

1729
01:13:22,190 --> 01:13:19,590
United States for like ten years or

1730
01:13:26,420 --> 01:13:22,200
longer until he finally stumbled into an

1731
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:26,430
outpost in Mexico after meeting all

1732
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:28,410
kinds of indigenous people all the way

1733
01:13:34,550 --> 01:13:31,170
1531 was yeah okay so was yeah it was

1734
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:34,560
early 1500s one of the the reason I'm

1735
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:35,970
fascinated by this is the reason I'm

1736
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:39,120
fascinated by any is the reason the

1737
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:41,250
reason is I'm fascinated by anybody who

1738
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:44,730
it gets experienced something or gets

1739
01:13:49,100 --> 01:13:46,770
involved in something before anybody has

1740
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:49,110
any idea how to talk about it right so

1741
01:13:54,170 --> 01:13:52,650
that the the experience is pure and it

1742
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:54,180
doesn't have preconceptions all wrapped

1743
01:14:02,150 --> 01:13:58,560
around it you know as far as UFO books I

1744
01:14:05,350 --> 01:14:02,160
think my favorite UFO book one of my

1745
01:14:09,110 --> 01:14:05,360
favorites is and I've said it before is

1746
01:14:12,890 --> 01:14:09,120
messengers of deception for obvious

1747
01:14:17,780 --> 01:14:12,900
reasons uh and another one of my

1748
01:14:21,380 --> 01:14:17,790
favorites is the I can't think of it

1749
01:14:24,140 --> 01:14:21,390
Jim Brandon's book rebirth of pan which

1750
01:14:27,770 --> 01:14:24,150
is kind of hard to find but very very

1751
01:14:30,650 --> 01:14:27,780
deep influence on my thinking and maybe

1752
01:14:34,220 --> 01:14:30,660
operation Trojan horse amazing by by

1753
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:34,230
keel but yeah these are but those are

1754
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:35,970
basically books that come up when I

1755
01:14:40,580 --> 01:14:38,370
think you know my favorite PMI another

1756
01:14:44,900 --> 01:14:40,590
one strangely enough is John Barleycorn

1757
01:14:46,610 --> 01:14:44,910
by Jack London just about basically a

1758
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:46,620
autobiography of him being an alcoholic

1759
01:14:51,050 --> 01:14:48,690
and what how he became one and the

1760
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:51,060
problems he had with it and all that

1761
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:52,410
this was written in you know nineteen

1762
01:14:56,090 --> 01:14:53,850
eleven or something like that when

1763
01:14:58,120 --> 01:14:56,100
nobody really said that alcoholism was a

1764
01:15:00,410 --> 01:14:58,130
disease dealt with it very

1765
01:15:01,790 --> 01:15:00,420
straightforwardly and people actually

1766
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:01,800
don't want to think that it's an

1767
01:15:05,780 --> 01:15:03,090
autobiography because it

1768
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:05,790
and it shows a weakness in him which was

1769
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:07,530
actually a big thing for him to do at

1770
01:15:11,450 --> 01:15:09,570
the time to write that so yeah that's

1771
01:15:14,990 --> 01:15:11,460
those are basically some of the things

1772
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:15,000
that that float my boat I guess yeah how

1773
01:15:21,740 --> 01:15:19,890
about you pull yeah I read a lot of you

1774
01:15:23,090 --> 01:15:21,750
know my trip my background is in history

1775
01:15:25,670 --> 01:15:23,100
I still read a lot of history I'm

1776
01:15:27,620 --> 01:15:25,680
reading Adrian goal or goals were these

1777
01:15:29,780 --> 01:15:27,630
biography of Augustus actually right now

1778
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:29,790
I'm sort of into ancient history I move

1779
01:15:34,970 --> 01:15:31,890
I'm like Doctor Who I move between time

1780
01:15:36,710 --> 01:15:34,980
periods but in terms of fiction you know

1781
01:15:39,470 --> 01:15:36,720
if I had my top five they'd be watering

1782
01:15:42,530 --> 01:15:39,480
Heights enquirer flows the dawn by

1783
01:15:44,480 --> 01:15:42,540
Shelikof watership down which is

1784
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:44,490
probably my favorite book those plucky

1785
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:46,650
little rabbits I cry every time I read

1786
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:48,810
that book there's a great book by

1787
01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:50,370
Canadian author for here from Nova

1788
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:52,080
Scotia called Mountain Valley or in

1789
01:15:57,860 --> 01:15:55,920
Ernest buckler you know that kind of

1790
01:16:00,040 --> 01:15:57,870
stuff I love the late 19th century

1791
01:16:01,900 --> 01:16:00,050
Romantic literature Pride and Prejudice

1792
01:16:04,190 --> 01:16:01,910
and all of that

1793
01:16:07,130 --> 01:16:04,200
far from the madding crowd I'd probably

1794
01:16:09,710 --> 01:16:07,140
make my fifth sort of book and I revisit

1795
01:16:11,630 --> 01:16:09,720
those you know if I read watership down

1796
01:16:13,790 --> 01:16:11,640
usually once every year or two but I

1797
01:16:16,340 --> 01:16:13,800
revisit them every now and then even as

1798
01:16:18,260 --> 01:16:16,350
I've tried you know I try and read newer

1799
01:16:19,820 --> 01:16:18,270
books new literature it's just there's

1800
01:16:21,620 --> 01:16:19,830
so much out there it's like music

1801
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:21,630
there's so much out there but it's hard

1802
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:23,610
to and you know we all have lives to

1803
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:25,170
lead and jobs to do and stuff like that

1804
01:16:30,620 --> 01:16:27,690
but but the the nature of what I do

1805
01:16:32,300 --> 01:16:30,630
writing screenplays or whatever yeah I

1806
01:16:33,860 --> 01:16:32,310
was just as I'm saying you know when

1807
01:16:35,510 --> 01:16:33,870
you're when you make your living at

1808
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:35,520
least in part on telling stories and

1809
01:16:39,500 --> 01:16:37,050
writing screenplays and stuff you have

1810
01:16:40,670 --> 01:16:39,510
to be you know you have to you have to

1811
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:40,680
have an understanding of literature

1812
01:16:43,310 --> 01:16:41,970
Shakespeare I've read all of

1813
01:16:45,230 --> 01:16:43,320
Shakespeare's plays for instance and

1814
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:45,240
every year I try and go see at least one

1815
01:16:50,030 --> 01:16:47,730
or two when to perform locally here so

1816
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:50,040
you know but like everybody I would

1817
01:16:53,150 --> 01:16:51,840
think you have a broad actually I

1818
01:16:54,950 --> 01:16:53,160
shouldn't say like everybody one of the

1819
01:16:57,470 --> 01:16:54,960
things that annoys me most about modern

1820
01:16:59,720 --> 01:16:57,480
society it's that people don't read as

1821
01:17:01,580 --> 01:16:59,730
much as they used to and that's part of

1822
01:17:03,950 --> 01:17:01,590
the Twitter Facebook and I mean I used

1823
01:17:06,140 --> 01:17:03,960
those things I'm on them more or less

1824
01:17:08,870 --> 01:17:06,150
all the time it seems but you have to

1825
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:08,880
have a balance and so the same thing is

1826
01:17:13,130 --> 01:17:11,730
true in UFO research or ghost research

1827
01:17:14,300 --> 01:17:13,140
or whatever you want to call it I think

1828
01:17:16,220 --> 01:17:14,310
you have to be familiar with the

1829
01:17:17,100 --> 01:17:16,230
literature from the past but I think you

1830
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:17,110
also have to

1831
01:17:22,709 --> 01:17:20,650
be familiar with the technological tools

1832
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:22,719
that you can use to disseminate and

1833
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:24,850
collect information as it exists today

1834
01:17:28,979 --> 01:17:27,010
and to communicate with other people so

1835
01:17:30,990 --> 01:17:28,989
it's a it's a balancing act between both

1836
01:17:34,350 --> 01:17:31,000
and it's you know within the paranormal

1837
01:17:36,090 --> 01:17:34,360
world it's hard to balance sometimes far

1838
01:17:39,030 --> 01:17:36,100
too many people seem stuck in the past

1839
01:17:41,399 --> 01:17:39,040
and not you know using the tools of the

1840
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:41,409
present and some of the lot of people as

1841
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:43,210
chris mentioned earlier who just go

1842
01:17:46,979 --> 01:17:45,250
online and look at videos crazy videos

1843
01:17:48,270 --> 01:17:46,989
of sea monsters or something jumping out

1844
01:17:51,270 --> 01:17:48,280
of the water

1845
01:17:52,890 --> 01:17:51,280
third phase of moon they think they're

1846
01:17:54,959 --> 01:17:52,900
not familiar with the literature of the

1847
01:17:57,959 --> 01:17:54,969
past so they sort of say wow this seems

1848
01:17:59,609 --> 01:17:57,969
really new this is amazing really know

1849
01:18:02,280 --> 01:17:59,619
this you know people have been talking

1850
01:18:03,390 --> 01:18:02,290
about this for 50 years so there's you

1851
01:18:05,850 --> 01:18:03,400
know you have to walk that fine line

1852
01:18:08,220 --> 01:18:05,860
between the two the two different worlds

1853
01:18:10,410 --> 01:18:08,230
it's not always easy I'm going to list

1854
01:18:12,930 --> 01:18:10,420
some of my views about this in our next

1855
01:18:15,750 --> 01:18:12,940
segment concentrate mostly on UFOs

1856
01:18:17,370 --> 01:18:15,760
and/or paranormal books but we do have

1857
01:18:20,629 --> 01:18:17,380
four more segments and more of your

1858
01:18:23,850 --> 01:18:20,639
questions this is our 10th anniversary

1859
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:23,860
Roundtable we've got Paul Kimball Chris

1860
01:18:30,540 --> 01:18:27,130
O'Brien Jean Steinberg Coggs Makai Greg

1861
01:18:34,290 --> 01:18:30,550
Bishop all together in one large virtual

1862
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:34,300
room that stuffed to the gills with gene

1863
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:37,970
and Chris you're in get petaca

1864
01:19:02,360 --> 01:18:58,020
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1865
01:19:11,010 --> 01:19:02,370
standard of paranormal radio and now

1866
01:19:13,860 --> 01:19:11,020
here's Jane Steinberg with gene and

1867
01:19:15,870 --> 01:19:13,870
Chris and Paul Kimble cogs McKay and

1868
01:19:19,229 --> 01:19:15,880
Greg Bishop the tenth anniversary show

1869
01:19:20,910 --> 01:19:19,239
ten years of the para cast and for those

1870
01:19:23,939 --> 01:19:20,920
who are tuning in late on the various

1871
01:19:26,129 --> 01:19:23,949
radio stations that carry us we had also

1872
01:19:28,860 --> 01:19:26,139
hoped to have Brad Steiger who was one

1873
01:19:32,459 --> 01:19:28,870
of our first guests on the show and he

1874
01:19:35,430 --> 01:19:32,469
had a bit of a fall in the snow-covered

1875
01:19:37,470 --> 01:19:35,440
Iowa so he's mounting the men we'll have

1876
01:19:40,649 --> 01:19:37,480
him back in the near future and we also

1877
01:19:43,110 --> 01:19:40,659
wanted Nick Redfern on but Nick has not

1878
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:43,120
one but two book book deadlines if the

1879
01:19:47,700 --> 01:19:45,850
end of March so every spare second that

1880
01:19:50,070 --> 01:19:47,710
he's away could coffee'd up he's writing

1881
01:19:52,830 --> 01:19:50,080
would be budget deal what else is new

1882
01:19:55,350 --> 01:19:52,840
you know it's funny about coffee with me

1883
01:19:57,899 --> 01:19:55,360
I drink coffee in the morning within an

1884
01:19:59,520 --> 01:19:57,909
hour I feel groggy but if I just take

1885
01:20:03,180 --> 01:19:59,530
one of those energy drinks like Red Bull

1886
01:20:05,610 --> 01:20:03,190
I'm raring to go there you go how low

1887
01:20:08,550 --> 01:20:05,620
can you go books it impacted me in many

1888
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:08,560
different ways and I'll focus on UFOs

1889
01:20:13,470 --> 01:20:11,290
and I think the first book I ever read

1890
01:20:15,990 --> 01:20:13,480
flying saucers from outer space by major

1891
01:20:18,930 --> 01:20:16,000
Donald Kehoe not that I agree with a lot

1892
01:20:20,669 --> 01:20:18,940
of what Kehoe says and what he concluded

1893
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:20,679
because it's just the same stuff that we

1894
01:20:24,899 --> 01:20:23,290
talk about today in the UFO field if

1895
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:24,909
you're not engaged in cutting-edge

1896
01:20:29,970 --> 01:20:27,250
thinking but because it was the start

1897
01:20:33,919 --> 01:20:29,980
for me it opened up my mind like that

1898
01:20:37,020 --> 01:20:33,929
line in Total Recall open up your mind

1899
01:20:40,470 --> 01:20:37,030
it opened up my mind about all sorts of

1900
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:40,480
incredible possibilities as a preteen so

1901
01:20:45,660 --> 01:20:42,130
I enjoyed reading that book and other

1902
01:20:47,490 --> 01:20:45,670
kehoe books until I learned about things

1903
01:20:51,090 --> 01:20:47,500
not being quite what they seem to be

1904
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:51,100
which is why UFOs operation Trojan horse

1905
01:20:57,090 --> 01:20:54,010
by John keel really influenced me

1906
01:20:58,740 --> 01:20:57,100
because he was saying everything you

1907
01:20:59,580 --> 01:20:58,750
thought you knew and believed and

1908
01:21:02,070 --> 01:20:59,590
accepted

1909
01:21:05,540 --> 01:21:02,080
was wrong and that's a very good wake-up

1910
01:21:09,450 --> 01:21:05,550
call I had that wake-up call you gods

1911
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:09,460
and when it comes to fiction definitely

1912
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:11,530
top of the list is the Lord of the Rings

1913
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:15,850
trilogy I can reread them ad infinitum I

1914
01:21:21,690 --> 01:21:18,970
just love those books another fiction

1915
01:21:23,850 --> 01:21:21,700
book a science fiction writer that you

1916
01:21:27,300 --> 01:21:23,860
don't hear of much these days is a guy

1917
01:21:29,850 --> 01:21:27,310
called Greg bear and he wrote some

1918
01:21:33,060 --> 01:21:29,860
amazing books one of which was called

1919
01:21:34,650 --> 01:21:33,070
Eon another one blood music I don't know

1920
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:34,660
if you guys have heard of them if you

1921
01:21:42,480 --> 01:21:38,610
haven't check them out for sure and and

1922
01:21:46,050 --> 01:21:42,490
UFO books also operation Trojan horse

1923
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:46,060
have got that I like em I love Leslie

1924
01:21:50,850 --> 01:21:48,610
Keens book the about UFOs generals

1925
01:21:54,990 --> 01:21:50,860
pilots cetera I can never remember the

1926
01:21:58,260 --> 01:21:55,000
full title and also I've got the Donald

1927
01:22:01,860 --> 01:21:58,270
Kehoe book that you mentioned gene I've

1928
01:22:04,500 --> 01:22:01,870
also got one by Alan Hynek but the day

1929
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:04,510
the name escapes me right now but it's

1930
01:22:09,870 --> 01:22:07,330
the one in which he um I think he first

1931
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:09,880
came out with his you know levels of

1932
01:22:14,550 --> 01:22:11,890
contact doesn't you know call your folks

1933
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:14,560
her once I think the UFO experience is

1934
01:22:20,810 --> 01:22:17,410
his real seminal work yeah that's the

1935
01:22:23,070 --> 01:22:20,820
one that's the biggie yeah and also

1936
01:22:25,740 --> 01:22:23,080
another book that I've appreciated

1937
01:22:31,860 --> 01:22:25,750
recently it was William Bromley's gods

1938
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:31,870
of Eden though yeah it's a tough read it

1939
01:22:36,540 --> 01:22:34,690
is again if they only wrote one book on

1940
01:22:39,030 --> 01:22:36,550
you know that even covered the subject

1941
01:22:41,370 --> 01:22:39,040
to my knowledge yeah you ever noticed

1942
01:22:43,230 --> 01:22:41,380
that everybody here that there's a lot

1943
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:43,240
of really good books on UFOs that were

1944
01:22:48,180 --> 01:22:44,890
written by somebody who just wrote one

1945
01:22:50,010 --> 01:22:48,190
one book here angels and aliens by Keith

1946
01:22:51,630 --> 01:22:50,020
Thompson that's that's an incredible

1947
01:22:54,420 --> 01:22:51,640
against the only one he wrote about the

1948
01:22:57,030 --> 01:22:54,430
subject demonic reality Patrick offers

1949
01:22:59,100 --> 01:22:57,040
yeah another good one let me chime in

1950
01:23:02,250 --> 01:22:59,110
here I've got a whole list in fiction

1951
01:23:06,090 --> 01:23:02,260
Gary Jennings with just the most

1952
01:23:08,850 --> 01:23:06,100
incredible historical fiction writer all

1953
01:23:10,830 --> 01:23:08,860
the Aztec books probably my favorite

1954
01:23:13,169 --> 01:23:10,840
non-fiction book is the journeyer which

1955
01:23:15,849 --> 01:23:13,179
is the 50% of

1956
01:23:17,889 --> 01:23:15,859
Marco Polo's experiences that he didn't

1957
01:23:19,779 --> 01:23:17,899
ride in my travels around the world the

1958
01:23:20,830 --> 01:23:19,789
excellent book I've reread it probably

1959
01:23:25,779 --> 01:23:20,840
five or six times

1960
01:23:26,229 --> 01:23:25,789
Clavis Shogun king rat guy seeing those

1961
01:23:29,500 --> 01:23:26,239
books

1962
01:23:32,169 --> 01:23:29,510
excellent and but in terms of paranormal

1963
01:23:34,029 --> 01:23:32,179
stuff cosmic trigger was a real

1964
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:34,039
eye-opening book for me by Robert Anton

1965
01:23:38,259 --> 01:23:35,449
Wilson

1966
01:23:41,529 --> 01:23:38,269
I agree John keel operation Trojan horse

1967
01:23:44,349 --> 01:23:41,539
as far as UFO books go that is way at

1968
01:23:47,250 --> 01:23:44,359
the top of the list along with messages

1969
01:23:49,209 --> 01:23:47,260
of deceptions valets trilogy of

1970
01:23:52,089 --> 01:23:49,219
confrontations dimensions and

1971
01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:52,099
revelations extremely important in my

1972
01:23:56,379 --> 01:23:55,760
thinking terence mckenna's books food of

1973
01:23:59,830 --> 01:23:56,389
the gods

1974
01:24:03,129 --> 01:23:59,840
to hallucinations just outrageously

1975
01:24:06,069 --> 01:24:03,139
out-of-the-box thinking as you know

1976
01:24:08,979 --> 01:24:06,079
trying to incorporate altered states of

1977
01:24:11,859 --> 01:24:08,989
reality to help give us another

1978
01:24:13,869 --> 01:24:11,869
paintbrush in our in our palette to in

1979
01:24:15,219 --> 01:24:13,879
colors in our palette to look at our

1980
01:24:17,770 --> 01:24:15,229
reality in new and different and

1981
01:24:20,469 --> 01:24:17,780
exciting ways so and I could go on and

1982
01:24:21,759 --> 01:24:20,479
on and on I've got so many that I like

1983
01:24:24,399 --> 01:24:21,769
but those were those are the ones that

1984
01:24:26,909 --> 01:24:24,409
really really leap out right now let's

1985
01:24:30,159 --> 01:24:26,919
sleep to another question Chris okay

1986
01:24:33,609 --> 01:24:30,169
speaking of Patrick Harper Wade who is a

1987
01:24:36,759 --> 01:24:33,619
longtime uh well he's been posting for

1988
01:24:39,759 --> 01:24:36,769
six years now and he's up to forty forty

1989
01:24:42,159 --> 01:24:39,769
two hundred posts and he calls himself a

1990
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:42,169
pharaoh normal master which I always

1991
01:24:47,619 --> 01:24:46,010
found that intriguing Wade would like to

1992
01:24:49,419 --> 01:24:47,629
know if any of the participants are

1993
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:49,429
familiar with Patrick Harper's quote

1994
01:24:54,459 --> 01:24:51,530
panic in the woods unquote article and

1995
01:24:55,659 --> 01:24:54,469
have they experienced it themselves do

1996
01:24:58,209 --> 01:24:55,669
you think that there's anything to it

1997
01:25:01,509 --> 01:24:58,219
other than overindulgent imagination and

1998
01:25:03,159 --> 01:25:01,519
why do you think that this happens he

1999
01:25:05,709 --> 01:25:03,169
says speaking for myself I live in Los

2000
01:25:07,029 --> 01:25:05,719
Angeles and walk down dark alleys that

2001
01:25:08,020 --> 01:25:07,039
by all accounts should give one pause

2002
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:08,030
entering yet

2003
01:25:11,859 --> 01:25:10,489
I had no issue going in however there

2004
01:25:13,719 --> 01:25:11,869
were a couple of places I hiked in the

2005
01:25:16,509 --> 01:25:13,729
end Angeles National Forest and Los

2006
01:25:18,310 --> 01:25:16,519
Padres in a couple of places it was all

2007
01:25:20,889 --> 01:25:18,320
I could do to keep myself from bolting

2008
01:25:23,379 --> 01:25:20,899
mostly because after all went quiet I

2009
01:25:25,660 --> 01:25:23,389
could have heard sworn I heard a buzzing

2010
01:25:29,380 --> 01:25:25,670
noise that increased in volume

2011
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:29,390
Bend's cicadas or my imagination he

2012
01:25:35,919 --> 01:25:30,770
didn't stick around long enough to

2013
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:35,929
rationalize it out Paul you live up in a

2014
01:25:41,830 --> 01:25:38,810
fairly remote location in North America

2015
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:41,840
I mean you can go probably a half-hour

2016
01:25:48,310 --> 01:25:45,770
and like be in really really dense woods

2017
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:48,320
and and I'm sure you've spent time out

2018
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:50,690
there do you ever get that you'll panic

2019
01:25:53,380 --> 01:25:52,010
in the woods saying like somebody's

2020
01:25:56,500 --> 01:25:53,390
watching you if you're out there by

2021
01:25:58,600 --> 01:25:56,510
yourself or yeah I used to get it a lot

2022
01:26:01,540 --> 01:25:58,610
more when I was a kid because I grew up

2023
01:26:04,780 --> 01:26:01,550
in them sort of on the border of

2024
01:26:07,209 --> 01:26:04,790
suburban / near rural and we had about

2025
01:26:09,340 --> 01:26:07,219
two acres of land and behind the house

2026
01:26:11,709 --> 01:26:09,350
it was all wooded we had a tree fort and

2027
01:26:12,729 --> 01:26:11,719
all sorts of cool stuff for kids you

2028
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:12,739
know there would be times when I

2029
01:26:17,169 --> 01:26:14,449
remember when I would be out there by

2030
01:26:18,550 --> 01:26:17,179
myself and you know the parents would be

2031
01:26:21,070 --> 01:26:18,560
in the house my brother and sister be

2032
01:26:23,950 --> 01:26:21,080
somewhere else and you know you can

2033
01:26:26,770 --> 01:26:23,960
almost yeah I could almost hear people

2034
01:26:29,590 --> 01:26:26,780
talking now that makes me sound crazy

2035
01:26:31,030 --> 01:26:29,600
but you know having hosted a ghost TV

2036
01:26:33,070 --> 01:26:31,040
series I'm not so worried about sounding

2037
01:26:34,930 --> 01:26:33,080
crazy anymore it wasn't people talking

2038
01:26:37,870 --> 01:26:34,940
but it was it was just you know it was

2039
01:26:39,850 --> 01:26:37,880
you get this feeling and it's very it's

2040
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:39,860
very hard to describe

2041
01:26:45,430 --> 01:26:43,130
you know I've experienced it since I

2042
01:26:48,580 --> 01:26:45,440
remember once in particular I was in

2043
01:26:51,930 --> 01:26:48,590
Colorado in 2007

2044
01:26:53,919 --> 01:26:51,940
sorry 2008 August 2008 running a play

2045
01:26:55,930 --> 01:26:53,929
doing time which I've written with Mac

2046
01:26:58,090 --> 01:26:55,940
Tony's actually at the boulder

2047
01:27:01,260 --> 01:26:58,100
International Fringe Festival and we one

2048
01:27:03,850 --> 01:27:01,270
of my two actors Annie Briggs was very

2049
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:03,860
interest very interested in Buddhism so

2050
01:27:07,030 --> 01:27:05,090
we went up to the Great Stupa

2051
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:07,040
in northern Colorado on one of our off

2052
01:27:11,110 --> 01:27:09,650
days and they had a spot there that I

2053
01:27:13,540 --> 01:27:11,120
just kind of walked him to the peaceful

2054
01:27:15,970 --> 01:27:13,550
meditation spot and I don't know what it

2055
01:27:18,370 --> 01:27:15,980
was but it was you know there was some

2056
01:27:20,140 --> 01:27:18,380
wind and stuff outside it and as soon as

2057
01:27:22,209 --> 01:27:20,150
I walked inside it the the opposite

2058
01:27:25,689 --> 01:27:22,219
happened it was as if I had walked into

2059
01:27:28,570 --> 01:27:25,699
a bubble away from anything else in the

2060
01:27:29,890 --> 01:27:28,580
world and you know the true skeptic the

2061
01:27:30,939 --> 01:27:29,900
skeptic and Eve and would say well

2062
01:27:33,459 --> 01:27:30,949
that's probably they put it there

2063
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:33,469
because it's they wind patterns and

2064
01:27:37,540 --> 01:27:35,090
everything but as soon as I walked out

2065
01:27:39,020 --> 01:27:37,550
of it you know it was like I was back in

2066
01:27:41,089 --> 01:27:39,030
the real world again

2067
01:27:43,339 --> 01:27:41,099
and so you know I noticed those kinds of

2068
01:27:45,379 --> 01:27:43,349
things when I was investigating the good

2069
01:27:46,850 --> 01:27:45,389
some of the weirder things that happened

2070
01:27:49,669 --> 01:27:46,860
to me were things like that during the

2071
01:27:51,500 --> 01:27:49,679
ghost series so yeah you know I sort of

2072
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:51,510
including some moments when I panicked

2073
01:27:54,620 --> 01:27:53,610
he thought this I've written about I've

2074
01:27:56,930 --> 01:27:54,630
talked about it where there were moments

2075
01:27:59,029 --> 01:27:56,940
where I was just overcome with fear

2076
01:28:01,910 --> 01:27:59,039
because I was I would put myself alone

2077
01:28:03,950 --> 01:28:01,920
in certain places and you get that you

2078
01:28:05,209 --> 01:28:03,960
know do you create it or is it created

2079
01:28:06,859 --> 01:28:05,219
for you is it actually something

2080
01:28:08,330 --> 01:28:06,869
happening and depending on the

2081
01:28:10,069 --> 01:28:08,340
circumstance I'm willing to admit that

2082
01:28:12,740 --> 01:28:10,079
all three of those things might be true

2083
01:28:15,010 --> 01:28:12,750
so in a roundabout way without having

2084
01:28:17,810 --> 01:28:15,020
read Patrick Harper's particular article

2085
01:28:18,350 --> 01:28:17,820
but understanding generally what you're

2086
01:28:20,839 --> 01:28:18,360
talking about

2087
01:28:23,689 --> 01:28:20,849
yeah sure absolutely I'll give you my

2088
01:28:26,450 --> 01:28:23,699
example well but no let me give it for

2089
01:28:28,010 --> 01:28:26,460
you I have to do the break anytime you

2090
01:28:30,470 --> 01:28:28,020
walk into Barbara's room and she's

2091
01:28:34,010 --> 01:28:30,480
watching Fox News Fox News you go into a

2092
01:28:37,580 --> 01:28:34,020
deep panic I know you know what you got

2093
01:28:40,700 --> 01:28:37,590
it right Gina and Chris Paul Campbell

2094
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:40,710
Greg Bishop gobsmacked I you're in the

2095
01:28:44,850 --> 01:28:49,430
[Music]

2096
01:28:54,419 --> 01:28:52,410
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

2097
01:28:58,319 --> 01:28:54,429
comment or question about the para cast

2098
01:29:01,680 --> 01:28:58,329
sent it to news at the para cast com

2099
01:29:03,810 --> 01:29:01,690
that's news at the para cast calm and

2100
01:29:06,989 --> 01:29:03,820
don't forget to visit our famous para

2101
01:29:11,759 --> 01:29:06,999
cast community forums at forum dot the

2102
01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:11,769
para cast calm okay so it's not just

2103
01:29:18,569 --> 01:29:14,170
going into the bedroom and watching

2104
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:18,579
Barbour Steinberg watch Fox News and I

2105
01:29:22,529 --> 01:29:20,650
don't remember how she got addicted to

2106
01:29:24,149 --> 01:29:22,539
that she's a nice Jewish girl from

2107
01:29:26,279 --> 01:29:24,159
Brooklyn New York it doesn't seem to

2108
01:29:28,529 --> 01:29:26,289
make sense this is the 10th anniversary

2109
01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:28,539
episode of the power cast let me give

2110
01:29:33,989 --> 01:29:31,090
you the real panic in the woods scenario

2111
01:29:36,060 --> 01:29:33,999
so I used to work at a radio station in

2112
01:29:38,819 --> 01:29:36,070
Tuscumbia Alabama part of the Quad

2113
01:29:40,649 --> 01:29:38,829
Cities of Alabama that includes Muscle

2114
01:29:42,779 --> 01:29:40,659
Shoals and this was around the time that

2115
01:29:46,919 --> 01:29:42,789
all those famous recordings were being

2116
01:29:48,390 --> 01:29:46,929
made in Muscle Shoals okay now the radio

2117
01:29:51,180 --> 01:29:48,400
station I worked at was then a

2118
01:29:54,450 --> 01:29:51,190
country-western station and it was on a

2119
01:29:56,819 --> 01:29:54,460
two-lane road in the woods to get to the

2120
01:29:59,640 --> 01:29:56,829
station the transmitter all in a unified

2121
01:30:01,500 --> 01:29:59,650
building and maybe a couple of weeks

2122
01:30:04,589 --> 01:30:01,510
after I first learned how to drive and

2123
01:30:08,220 --> 01:30:04,599
got myself a car my first wife and I are

2124
01:30:09,779 --> 01:30:08,230
driving and we take a trip to this area

2125
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:09,789
just to get used to driving in the

2126
01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:13,210
experience and that time one time it was

2127
01:30:20,029 --> 01:30:15,730
maybe 7:00 8:00 at night it was dark and

2128
01:30:23,250 --> 01:30:20,039
I felt an incredible state of panic

2129
01:30:24,799 --> 01:30:23,260
all-consuming and I looked around and I

2130
01:30:27,750 --> 01:30:24,809
didn't want to go any further and

2131
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:27,760
finally I struggled to make a u-turn on

2132
01:30:34,259 --> 01:30:30,730
a narrow two-lane road I did it and I

2133
01:30:36,330 --> 01:30:34,269
got home but just for that second just

2134
01:30:40,020 --> 01:30:36,340
everything was falling apart I was just

2135
01:30:42,330 --> 01:30:40,030
a mere lad at the time God's you he

2136
01:30:45,149 --> 01:30:42,340
doesn't have any woods to be quite

2137
01:30:47,250 --> 01:30:45,159
honest uh being a bit baffled em about

2138
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:47,260
what you guys have been relating I've

2139
01:30:51,930 --> 01:30:49,570
been in many wounds many times but I've

2140
01:30:54,689 --> 01:30:51,940
never had this experience you're talking

2141
01:30:58,319 --> 01:30:54,699
about Greg - oh well in the middle of

2142
01:31:00,750 --> 01:30:58,329
the LA sprawl suburban sprawl so tell me

2143
01:31:02,550 --> 01:31:00,760
more never in LA

2144
01:31:04,770 --> 01:31:02,560
the one thing the one time I did have a

2145
01:31:07,410 --> 01:31:04,780
really weird experience like that and

2146
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:07,420
yeah I've been camping and hiking and

2147
01:31:11,070 --> 01:31:08,770
stuff like that all my life

2148
01:31:13,020 --> 01:31:11,080
in fact I went to southern Utah for a

2149
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:13,030
couple of years and hiked all the slot

2150
01:31:18,570 --> 01:31:15,250
canyons by myself which was probably a

2151
01:31:19,830 --> 01:31:18,580
stupid thing to do but I never had you

2152
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:19,840
know any kind of experience like that

2153
01:31:24,450 --> 01:31:22,330
the only time I did I think I freaked

2154
01:31:26,910 --> 01:31:24,460
myself out a little bit and I wrote

2155
01:31:30,090 --> 01:31:26,920
about this was one I read William

2156
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:30,100
Steinman's UFO crash at Aztec when it

2157
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:32,770
came out in what was it 1987 or

2158
01:31:36,810 --> 01:31:34,690
something like that 86 I I don't know

2159
01:31:39,870 --> 01:31:36,820
what it was anyway I read this and I

2160
01:31:41,670 --> 01:31:39,880
said okay I've got a job I've got some

2161
01:31:44,280 --> 01:31:41,680
money I'm gonna get I'm gonna fly out to

2162
01:31:46,970 --> 01:31:44,290
New Mexico rent a car and drive there to

2163
01:31:49,440 --> 01:31:46,980
see if I can see what William Steinman

2164
01:31:52,020 --> 01:31:49,450
saw there so I drive out there

2165
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:52,030
whatever's at 87 88 something like that

2166
01:31:56,760 --> 01:31:54,970
and I drove you know I follow his

2167
01:31:58,290 --> 01:31:56,770
instructions I found the place I found

2168
01:32:00,960 --> 01:31:58,300
that little Mesa or the cliff or

2169
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:00,970
whatever it was and parked the car and

2170
01:32:04,410 --> 01:32:02,770
started looking around and I suddenly

2171
01:32:06,330 --> 01:32:04,420
got this really strange feeling that

2172
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:06,340
somebody was watching me and I that that

2173
01:32:10,140 --> 01:32:08,410
the feeling was like I was running

2174
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:10,150
around naked and somebody was hunting me

2175
01:32:15,090 --> 01:32:12,250
it was like this really primal fear I

2176
01:32:17,130 --> 01:32:15,100
looked down from the top of this cliff

2177
01:32:19,290 --> 01:32:17,140
or whatever it is down where the road is

2178
01:32:20,850 --> 01:32:19,300
in the valley coming up the cliff and

2179
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:20,860
there's a white car down there was

2180
01:32:24,780 --> 01:32:22,090
somebody sitting in the car apparently

2181
01:32:26,490 --> 01:32:24,790
looking at me which freaked me out so I

2182
01:32:27,510 --> 01:32:26,500
get in the car and I start to drive away

2183
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:27,520
and then I said I'm not going to let

2184
01:32:30,390 --> 01:32:29,290
this fear overtake me and I went back

2185
01:32:32,700 --> 01:32:30,400
and looked around some more and I got

2186
01:32:34,620 --> 01:32:32,710
the feeling again so I got my car and

2187
01:32:36,510 --> 01:32:34,630
drove away and as I drive down that car

2188
01:32:40,350 --> 01:32:36,520
isn't there anymore it's gone somewhere

2189
01:32:42,450 --> 01:32:40,360
but if I pass a side road two white vans

2190
01:32:44,340 --> 01:32:42,460
or trucks pickup trucks come out the

2191
01:32:46,620 --> 01:32:44,350
side road and come right up on my bumper

2192
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:46,630
the first one I had no idea what was

2193
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:48,970
going on and they they basically chased

2194
01:32:52,440 --> 01:32:50,770
me and then I you know I floored it I

2195
01:32:54,810 --> 01:32:52,450
was going like 75 miles an hour in a

2196
01:32:56,340 --> 01:32:54,820
gravel road there was so much dust I

2197
01:32:58,260 --> 01:32:56,350
that I couldn't see them and then when I

2198
01:32:59,400 --> 01:32:58,270
slowed down I finally I said look I'm

2199
01:33:01,170 --> 01:32:59,410
not going to be a [\h__\h] I'm just going

2200
01:33:02,730 --> 01:33:01,180
to figure out what's going on here and

2201
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:02,740
ask them and when I slowed down the

2202
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:03,850
trucks weren't there anymore

2203
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:06,130
so there might have been places to turn

2204
01:33:09,420 --> 01:33:07,690
off I don't know I was driving so fast

2205
01:33:11,460 --> 01:33:09,430
but the funny thing is it went from a

2206
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:11,470
weird kind of fear that I was being

2207
01:33:14,530 --> 01:33:13,330
watched to realizing that I was being

2208
01:33:16,390 --> 01:33:14,540
watched being chased

2209
01:33:17,980 --> 01:33:16,400
apparently by two people and they were

2210
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:17,990
chasing him and there right up on my

2211
01:33:21,370 --> 01:33:19,730
bumper that the first truck and there

2212
01:33:22,870 --> 01:33:21,380
were two guys in the trucks as far as I

2213
01:33:24,970 --> 01:33:22,880
could tell that we're just in you know

2214
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:24,980
white shirts dress shirts with a collar

2215
01:33:29,980 --> 01:33:27,530
and a tie and sunglasses there's a very

2216
01:33:32,890 --> 01:33:29,990
weird experience and you weren't chased

2217
01:33:35,440 --> 01:33:32,900
by Dracula want to point that out no no

2218
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:35,450
no unless he was wearing a white shirt

2219
01:33:42,010 --> 01:33:39,170
with a tie in and a white truck no she

2220
01:33:43,210 --> 01:33:42,020
wanted to blend in yeah out in the

2221
01:33:44,860 --> 01:33:43,220
middle of nowhere where there was nobody

2222
01:33:47,200 --> 01:33:44,870
else the only thing I could think is

2223
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:47,210
that I was trespassing on you know El

2224
01:33:51,730 --> 01:33:49,730
Paso gas company land or something but

2225
01:33:54,940 --> 01:33:51,740
you know why that reaction I have no

2226
01:33:58,120 --> 01:33:54,950
idea have any of you experienced there

2227
01:34:02,140 --> 01:33:58,130
what Jenny Randle's named the Oz factor

2228
01:34:07,090 --> 01:34:02,150
in any experience yes explain more about

2229
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:07,100
that will you cogs yeah the Oz factor is

2230
01:34:13,210 --> 01:34:09,890
quite often associated with people who

2231
01:34:16,330 --> 01:34:13,220
are involved in some kind of high

2232
01:34:20,890 --> 01:34:16,340
strange event and just before the event

2233
01:34:23,890 --> 01:34:20,900
it seems as if the world around them

2234
01:34:26,740 --> 01:34:23,900
goes quiet like you know the insects

2235
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:26,750
birds whatever you know you suddenly

2236
01:34:31,260 --> 01:34:29,810
can't hear them and it's almost as if

2237
01:34:33,910 --> 01:34:31,270
while you're while you're still

2238
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:33,920
geographically where you are it's almost

2239
01:34:39,700 --> 01:34:36,650
as if you're transported away to another

2240
01:34:42,850 --> 01:34:39,710
place and this is often like a prelude

2241
01:34:44,740 --> 01:34:42,860
to a very high strange event and and

2242
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:44,750
Jenny Randall's the you know the

2243
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:48,530
celebrated British ufologist and writer

2244
01:34:55,120 --> 01:34:52,010
she coined it the Oz factor as in you

2245
01:34:58,510 --> 01:34:55,130
know like going away to Oz in The Wizard

2246
01:35:02,080 --> 01:34:58,520
of Oz but many many people have have

2247
01:35:05,110 --> 01:35:02,090
reported this aspect just prior and

2248
01:35:08,140 --> 01:35:05,120
during a strange experience and maybe

2249
01:35:11,050 --> 01:35:08,150
Chris can expand on it because he's just

2250
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:11,060
said that he's experienced this oh yeah

2251
01:35:16,330 --> 01:35:13,850
a number of times the one of course that

2252
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:16,340
the only panic in the woods experience

2253
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:18,250
I've ever had happened when I was

2254
01:35:23,260 --> 01:35:20,930
apparently chased off the western flank

2255
01:35:25,030 --> 01:35:23,270
right at the base of Mount Shasta and

2256
01:35:26,379 --> 01:35:25,040
early spring chased off the mountain by

2257
01:35:28,509 --> 01:35:26,389
something that roared

2258
01:35:30,549 --> 01:35:28,519
and came through an impenetrable hedge

2259
01:35:34,049 --> 01:35:30,559
of huckleberry or mountain huckleberry

2260
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:34,059
is extremely tough ancient plants

2261
01:35:39,580 --> 01:35:37,489
roaring like a I don't know a lion and

2262
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:39,590
elephant trumpeting and a steam engine

2263
01:35:43,719 --> 01:35:41,449
is the only way I can describe it I

2264
01:35:46,629 --> 01:35:43,729
don't know what happened over the next

2265
01:35:49,060 --> 01:35:46,639
20 minutes half hour I went through a

2266
01:35:51,159 --> 01:35:49,070
quarter mile of woods got in a van and

2267
01:35:53,770 --> 01:35:51,169
was halfway down the down the foothills

2268
01:35:56,279 --> 01:35:53,780
before I I had my first you know

2269
01:35:58,949 --> 01:35:56,289
recollection I can remember now but

2270
01:36:03,459 --> 01:35:58,959
generally when I feel and I've spent

2271
01:36:06,270 --> 01:36:03,469
weeks and weeks in probably months in

2272
01:36:09,909 --> 01:36:06,280
the Pacific Northwest Cascade Mountains

2273
01:36:13,209 --> 01:36:09,919
oftentimes by myself or with one other

2274
01:36:15,549 --> 01:36:13,219
person I've done extensive hiking all up

2275
01:36:19,149 --> 01:36:15,559
and down the Adirondacks and the

2276
01:36:21,609 --> 01:36:19,159
Catskills though and spend time in the

2277
01:36:24,639 --> 01:36:21,619
northern Canadian Rockies with one other

2278
01:36:26,799 --> 01:36:24,649
person I've never had a feeling of panic

2279
01:36:29,759 --> 01:36:26,809
in the woods I felt that Oz factor

2280
01:36:32,799 --> 01:36:29,769
element kick in and instead of becoming

2281
01:36:34,989 --> 01:36:32,809
frightened and scared I I tend to become

2282
01:36:38,259 --> 01:36:34,999
very very meditative and quiet and I sit

2283
01:36:41,439 --> 01:36:38,269
very very still and just allow my my

2284
01:36:43,719 --> 01:36:41,449
sensory apparatus I go on high alert and

2285
01:36:46,719 --> 01:36:43,729
I sit and wait for something to happen I

2286
01:36:49,000 --> 01:36:46,729
I do the opposite of running like I did

2287
01:36:51,370 --> 01:36:49,010
with the whatever you want to call it

2288
01:36:53,919 --> 01:36:51,380
experience on Shasta but normally what

2289
01:36:56,709 --> 01:36:53,929
I'll do is I'll sit and try to identify

2290
01:36:58,839 --> 01:36:56,719
what it is that's creating this kind of

2291
01:37:01,179 --> 01:36:58,849
spooky feeling now I've been do I don't

2292
01:37:03,909 --> 01:37:01,189
know how many haunted sites around

2293
01:37:05,919 --> 01:37:03,919
America over the years and the only time

2294
01:37:07,479 --> 01:37:05,929
that I felt any sense of panic was in

2295
01:37:10,270 --> 01:37:07,489
the basement of the Sallie house and

2296
01:37:13,299 --> 01:37:10,280
that was I was a shared experience with

2297
01:37:15,639 --> 01:37:13,309
with the four other people I I literally

2298
01:37:17,399 --> 01:37:15,649
felt like something was squeezing my

2299
01:37:21,219 --> 01:37:17,409
heart and if I didn't leave immediately

2300
01:37:23,679 --> 01:37:21,229
my personal safety was in jeopardy Chris

2301
01:37:26,109 --> 01:37:23,689
our advertisers are squeezing me right

2302
01:37:30,100 --> 01:37:26,119
now gotta deal with them okay we have

2303
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:30,110
Paul Campbell GOx Makai Jean Chris and

2304
01:37:35,850 --> 01:37:43,850
[Music]

2305
01:37:50,340 --> 01:37:46,950
hey this is Marie D Jones the author of

2306
01:37:52,890 --> 01:37:50,350
this book is from the future and you are

2307
01:38:03,450 --> 01:37:52,900
listening to the podcast the gold

2308
01:38:06,270 --> 01:38:03,460
standard of paranormal radio all right

2309
01:38:11,189 --> 01:38:06,280
there we continue final two segments of

2310
01:38:13,110 --> 01:38:11,199
this extraordinary roundtable 10th

2311
01:38:15,780 --> 01:38:13,120
anniversary of the power cast they said

2312
01:38:18,660 --> 01:38:15,790
it couldn't be done and we're still here

2313
01:38:20,729 --> 01:38:18,670
GOG schmuck I Paul Kimball gene and

2314
01:38:24,570 --> 01:38:20,739
Chris Greg Bishop you have anything to

2315
01:38:27,330 --> 01:38:24,580
add about this Greg buzz factor yes sir

2316
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:27,340
yeah well not personally I was kind of

2317
01:38:31,950 --> 01:38:28,810
racking my brain while you other guys

2318
01:38:34,110 --> 01:38:31,960
were talking about it and the panic in

2319
01:38:36,390 --> 01:38:34,120
the woods I don't know but the Oz factor

2320
01:38:37,919 --> 01:38:36,400
thing I think is you know and it's kind

2321
01:38:39,840 --> 01:38:37,929
of obvious I think that almost everybody

2322
01:38:42,750 --> 01:38:39,850
listening is that it's it's present in

2323
01:38:45,209 --> 01:38:42,760
just about any paranormal event be it a

2324
01:38:48,810 --> 01:38:45,219
you know a UFO a Bigfoot at some other

2325
01:38:50,729 --> 01:38:48,820
strange crypto creature but it seems to

2326
01:38:52,470 --> 01:38:50,739
happen in a lot of different paranormal

2327
01:38:54,870 --> 01:38:52,480
events and the only thing it kind of

2328
01:38:59,430 --> 01:38:54,880
indicates to me is maybe you are dropped

2329
01:39:02,040 --> 01:38:59,440
into some sort of realm where it time

2330
01:39:03,810 --> 01:39:02,050
doesn't make any any is it is irrelevant

2331
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:03,820
for a little while and maybe that's a

2332
01:39:06,990 --> 01:39:05,170
clue as to where all this stuff is

2333
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:07,000
coming from and that you know we

2334
01:39:11,850 --> 01:39:09,760
experience whatever that lifting out of

2335
01:39:14,130 --> 01:39:11,860
normal time flow as everything just

2336
01:39:16,050 --> 01:39:14,140
turning silent I don't know that's my

2337
01:39:17,669 --> 01:39:16,060
current my current theory until

2338
01:39:20,189 --> 01:39:17,679
something comes along to change my mind

2339
01:39:21,570 --> 01:39:20,199
Paul Campbell have you ever felt you're

2340
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:21,580
not in Kansas anymore

2341
01:39:27,750 --> 01:39:25,449
oh yeah many times both individually you

2342
01:39:30,180 --> 01:39:27,760
know I sort of talked about it in that

2343
01:39:32,330 --> 01:39:30,190
trip to Colorado there but both

2344
01:39:35,189 --> 01:39:32,340
individually but also in particularly

2345
01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:35,199
when Holly and I were doing ghost cases

2346
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:38,050
and I think both of us would tell you

2347
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:40,090
that we would have had experiences like

2348
01:39:44,580 --> 01:39:42,730
that individually and then together you

2349
01:39:48,900 --> 01:39:44,590
know it's kind of interesting having

2350
01:39:50,910 --> 01:39:48,910
done that series changed if there was

2351
01:39:51,990 --> 01:39:50,920
anything that ever changed my way of

2352
01:39:54,180 --> 01:39:52,000
looking at

2353
01:39:55,500 --> 01:39:54,190
in quotation marks the paranormal I'd

2354
01:39:56,729 --> 01:39:55,510
even say in quotation marks the

2355
01:40:00,000 --> 01:39:56,739
spiritual I don't know they're probably

2356
01:40:01,170 --> 01:40:00,010
the same thing that was it I think it's

2357
01:40:03,540 --> 01:40:01,180
the kind of you know I used to think

2358
01:40:05,430 --> 01:40:03,550
that maybe you'd have to do it alone I

2359
01:40:08,550 --> 01:40:05,440
actually think it's the kind of thing

2360
01:40:11,430 --> 01:40:08,560
that is like certain other things that

2361
01:40:13,200 --> 01:40:11,440
are shared and having Holly along with

2362
01:40:15,209 --> 01:40:13,210
me somebody else who was often minded

2363
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:15,219
you know putting ourselves in situations

2364
01:40:20,010 --> 01:40:17,170
where we would open ourselves to

2365
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:20,020
experiences allowed us I think to have

2366
01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:21,610
some of those experiences many of which

2367
01:40:24,630 --> 01:40:23,050
I can explain you know there were things

2368
01:40:26,610 --> 01:40:24,640
that happened it's like okay well this

2369
01:40:29,220 --> 01:40:26,620
was this and this was that but there

2370
01:40:31,320 --> 01:40:29,230
were enough things that happened that I

2371
01:40:32,280 --> 01:40:31,330
couldn't explain that it changed my way

2372
01:40:34,950 --> 01:40:32,290
of looking at things

2373
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:34,960
there's one that I've written about in

2374
01:40:38,729 --> 01:40:36,730
my book I think I posted it online - I

2375
01:40:41,459 --> 01:40:38,739
call it the shadows of cesky krumlov and

2376
01:40:43,350 --> 01:40:41,469
it is it literally encompasses the odds

2377
01:40:44,880 --> 01:40:43,360
experience it encompasses the panic in

2378
01:40:47,939 --> 01:40:44,890
the woods experience although it was

2379
01:40:50,250 --> 01:40:47,949
actually in the center of a historic

2380
01:40:52,260 --> 01:40:50,260
town in the Czech Republic called cesky

2381
01:40:54,750 --> 01:40:52,270
krumlov and it froze in some shadow

2382
01:40:57,479 --> 01:40:54,760
people just for fun because you know I

2383
01:40:58,650 --> 01:40:57,489
was and anybody who knew me seven or

2384
01:41:00,330 --> 01:40:58,660
eight years ago would have said Paul

2385
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:00,340
Kane was about to say what but you know

2386
01:41:05,070 --> 01:41:02,530
I was stalked by and confronted by what

2387
01:41:07,140 --> 01:41:05,080
I can only call a shadow person and when

2388
01:41:09,330 --> 01:41:07,150
that kind of thing happens to you is

2389
01:41:10,830 --> 01:41:09,340
sort of like late at night and I was

2390
01:41:12,900 --> 01:41:10,840
alone and there was nobody else in town

2391
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:12,910
so all of that came out and the funny

2392
01:41:17,550 --> 01:41:15,010
thing is Holly and I were staying in

2393
01:41:19,229 --> 01:41:17,560
this little Inn it was like a wizard's

2394
01:41:21,450 --> 01:41:19,239
tower it really was it was like a

2395
01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:21,460
Wizards Tower when I finally get back

2396
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:22,810
because she had turned in early and I

2397
01:41:26,189 --> 01:41:25,090
just wanted to go for a walk I didn't

2398
01:41:28,140 --> 01:41:26,199
tell her about it I didn't tell her that

2399
01:41:30,150 --> 01:41:28,150
night I didn't tell her the next day I

2400
01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:30,160
didn't ever tell her about it she had to

2401
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:32,650
read it in my book because I you know it

2402
01:41:36,630 --> 01:41:34,570
took me three or four years to kind of

2403
01:41:38,459 --> 01:41:36,640
process it and admit that you know sort

2404
01:41:41,340 --> 01:41:38,469
of say that I'm willing to if somebody

2405
01:41:42,810 --> 01:41:41,350
wants to laugh at me fine but I'm going

2406
01:41:44,370 --> 01:41:42,820
to tell you that I had this experience

2407
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:44,380
and I don't know what it means but here

2408
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:47,530
it is and that was one of those

2409
01:41:51,150 --> 01:41:49,570
transformative things where I said I

2410
01:41:53,250 --> 01:41:51,160
struck my shoulders now and I go I don't

2411
01:41:55,590 --> 01:41:53,260
know what it was I just know that it was

2412
01:41:57,720 --> 01:41:55,600
something and it you know everything up

2413
01:41:59,459 --> 01:41:57,730
and to the point where I felt somebody

2414
01:42:01,200 --> 01:41:59,469
reaching out from behind me and grabbing

2415
01:42:03,390 --> 01:42:01,210
me on the shoulder where I saw shadowy

2416
01:42:04,950 --> 01:42:03,400
figures all of that and it scared the

2417
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:04,960
bejesus out of me there's

2418
01:42:08,550 --> 01:42:06,850
no question about that it was a true

2419
01:42:11,220 --> 01:42:08,560
panic in the streets of cesky krumlov

2420
01:42:13,620 --> 01:42:11,230
moment where I literally ran at the end

2421
01:42:15,900 --> 01:42:13,630
of it I ran through town I just took off

2422
01:42:18,390 --> 01:42:15,910
and ran and eventually I wound up by the

2423
01:42:19,979 --> 01:42:18,400
Wizards Castle and then I you know kind

2424
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:19,989
of took a moment to get my breath and

2425
01:42:24,240 --> 01:42:21,730
then went back into the room we were

2426
01:42:26,820 --> 01:42:24,250
staying in but ya don't I've talked to a

2427
01:42:27,540 --> 01:42:26,830
lot of people that have had experiences

2428
01:42:29,850 --> 01:42:27,550
like that

2429
01:42:33,050 --> 01:42:29,860
I throw synchronicity in there too Greg

2430
01:42:35,459 --> 01:42:33,060
knows about this I was in LA in 2011 I

2431
01:42:36,590 --> 01:42:35,469
fascinated by synchronicity you know I

2432
01:42:39,270 --> 01:42:36,600
had a run of what I consider

2433
01:42:41,190 --> 01:42:39,280
synchronistic experiences that included

2434
01:42:43,530 --> 01:42:41,200
some where Greg was present at a

2435
01:42:46,380 --> 01:42:43,540
baseball game and then on his own radio

2436
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:46,390
show radio mysterioso with Walter Bosley

2437
01:42:51,090 --> 01:42:48,730
happening in the studio as we're

2438
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:51,100
discussing synchronicity synchronistic

2439
01:42:54,990 --> 01:42:52,810
experiences start happening mostly

2440
01:42:56,490 --> 01:42:55,000
between Walter and I and so you know

2441
01:42:58,320 --> 01:42:56,500
those kinds of once you open your suit

2442
01:43:00,810 --> 01:42:58,330
it's like it I kind of view it as a door

2443
01:43:01,770 --> 01:43:00,820
once you open your the door to all of

2444
01:43:04,410 --> 01:43:01,780
these things happening

2445
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:04,420
I think things can happen to you and and

2446
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:06,489
I wish more people would do that because

2447
01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:08,890
it makes if nothing else it makes life

2448
01:43:13,020 --> 01:43:11,290
awfully interesting I don't know I've

2449
01:43:15,240 --> 01:43:13,030
had any experience like that at all I

2450
01:43:17,550 --> 01:43:15,250
feel I'm deprived some people say he's

2451
01:43:20,430 --> 01:43:17,560
depraved but I feel I've been deprived

2452
01:43:22,470 --> 01:43:20,440
of things like that Chris we are in our

2453
01:43:25,350 --> 01:43:22,480
last segment and a half maybe another

2454
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:25,360
question or two before we wrap sir well

2455
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:27,850
um this comes from Ravens fee who was a

2456
01:43:32,459 --> 01:43:30,489
fairly recent signing up at Forum dr.

2457
01:43:37,650 --> 01:43:32,469
Perik asked calm but she asks really

2458
01:43:39,180 --> 01:43:37,660
good questions and there's we could we

2459
01:43:43,650 --> 01:43:39,190
could divide it up into two things this

2460
01:43:45,270 --> 01:43:43,660
is kind of for our younger people I

2461
01:43:47,430 --> 01:43:45,280
think getting the they're interested in

2462
01:43:49,740 --> 01:43:47,440
getting into the field and have you know

2463
01:43:53,220 --> 01:43:49,750
have the motivation to possibly dip

2464
01:43:55,050 --> 01:43:53,230
their toe in the pool and this goes out

2465
01:43:57,510 --> 01:43:55,060
to everybody what would you say to

2466
01:43:59,360 --> 01:43:57,520
someone or what would you suggest the

2467
01:44:01,860 --> 01:43:59,370
summer with no previous experience

2468
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:01,870
joining the field today and I assume

2469
01:44:06,630 --> 01:44:04,090
that she's talking about the paranormal

2470
01:44:10,140 --> 01:44:06,640
UFOs cryptozoology the things that fall

2471
01:44:12,390 --> 01:44:10,150
within that rubric Paul

2472
01:44:15,270 --> 01:44:12,400
I mean other other than be as objective

2473
01:44:20,040 --> 01:44:15,280
as you can what would what would you

2474
01:44:22,830 --> 01:44:20,050
suggest go do it yourself so you know

2475
01:44:24,330 --> 01:44:22,840
read whatever but what is it I can never

2476
01:44:26,250 --> 01:44:24,340
remember the Bob Dylan line but don't

2477
01:44:27,870 --> 01:44:26,260
follow leaders something parking meters

2478
01:44:28,350 --> 01:44:27,880
whatever it is you know go out and do it

2479
01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:28,360
yourself

2480
01:44:34,709 --> 01:44:31,690
so almost everywhere has some sort of

2481
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:34,719
paranormal group or whatever a lot of

2482
01:44:37,979 --> 01:44:36,250
them are nuts and crazy and you know

2483
01:44:39,870 --> 01:44:37,989
goofy and you should stay away but do a

2484
01:44:41,790 --> 01:44:39,880
little research find a group of people

2485
01:44:43,740 --> 01:44:41,800
there's a good one here in Nova Scotia

2486
01:44:46,649 --> 01:44:43,750
for instance they run a conference

2487
01:44:48,479 --> 01:44:46,659
called the Paracon down on the Eastern

2488
01:44:50,700 --> 01:44:48,489
Shore which is a very sort of allegedly

2489
01:44:52,050 --> 01:44:50,710
haunted part it's like Maine you

2490
01:44:54,149 --> 01:44:52,060
Americans can probably relate the

2491
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:54,159
Stephen King kind of thing there every

2492
01:44:58,530 --> 01:44:56,050
second house is haunted so you know they

2493
01:45:01,110 --> 01:44:58,540
go out on regular sort of haunting

2494
01:45:03,419 --> 01:45:01,120
investigations and stuff like that and I

2495
01:45:05,729 --> 01:45:03,429
spoke at the Paracon this past August

2496
01:45:08,490 --> 01:45:05,739
and Tim banal was there actually

2497
01:45:10,260 --> 01:45:08,500
covering it for his show and we went to

2498
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:10,270
this sort of haunting thing they had at

2499
01:45:12,870 --> 01:45:11,290
night they would say okay and the

2500
01:45:14,490 --> 01:45:12,880
lectures were over Stan was there too

2501
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:14,500
let's all go and we'll go to one of

2502
01:45:19,709 --> 01:45:16,210
these haunted sites actually several and

2503
01:45:22,080 --> 01:45:19,719
we picked an old theater and you know

2504
01:45:23,130 --> 01:45:22,090
you realize immediately Kelly Connelly

2505
01:45:24,630 --> 01:45:23,140
was one of the people leading the

2506
01:45:27,300 --> 01:45:24,640
investigation these are you know good

2507
01:45:29,220 --> 01:45:27,310
solid nice serious people and so then

2508
01:45:31,020 --> 01:45:29,230
you're like great this is awesome we can

2509
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:31,030
open ourselves up to having some sort of

2510
01:45:34,770 --> 01:45:32,650
experience if there is an experience to

2511
01:45:36,689 --> 01:45:34,780
be had and I think on your show Greg I

2512
01:45:38,490 --> 01:45:36,699
talked about the experience that I had

2513
01:45:40,110 --> 01:45:38,500
that night I think Ben all had an

2514
01:45:42,750 --> 01:45:40,120
experience as well or something weird

2515
01:45:45,780 --> 01:45:42,760
happened to him and so I would just say

2516
01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:45,790
get out there and you know engage and

2517
01:45:49,649 --> 01:45:47,170
get involved and do it yourself

2518
01:45:53,130 --> 01:45:49,659
having taken that turn myself around

2519
01:45:55,050 --> 01:45:53,140
2008 2009 it like I said it changed the

2520
01:45:56,970 --> 01:45:55,060
way I looked at things so I'm all for

2521
01:45:58,380 --> 01:45:56,980
armchair theorists and everything that's

2522
01:46:01,110 --> 01:45:58,390
great I don't view that as a bad thing

2523
01:46:03,870 --> 01:46:01,120
but I think it's just more fun you get

2524
01:46:05,250 --> 01:46:03,880
the g-wiz factor if you gloat and engage

2525
01:46:07,410 --> 01:46:05,260
it's like anything else in life

2526
01:46:09,270 --> 01:46:07,420
you can look at books about great walks

2527
01:46:10,260 --> 01:46:09,280
and hikes that you can take or you can

2528
01:46:12,450 --> 01:46:10,270
actually go out and take the hike

2529
01:46:14,550 --> 01:46:12,460
yourself both are perfectly valid things

2530
01:46:16,169 --> 01:46:14,560
to do but I think actually doing it

2531
01:46:18,090 --> 01:46:16,179
yourself is a little more fun and that's

2532
01:46:20,100 --> 01:46:18,100
the one thing I would come really say is

2533
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:20,110
anybody young who wants to get into it

2534
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:22,890
you've got to have you

2535
01:46:26,900 --> 01:46:24,810
you have to have fun doing it if it's

2536
01:46:28,310 --> 01:46:26,910
not fun if it's some definitely life and

2537
01:46:31,130 --> 01:46:28,320
death struggle you know like you take it

2538
01:46:33,200 --> 01:46:31,140
so Steve Bassett demands no fun I mean

2539
01:46:35,030 --> 01:46:33,210
you you have to have fun doing it

2540
01:46:37,400 --> 01:46:35,040
and that's what's missing in a lot of

2541
01:46:39,380 --> 01:46:37,410
this is people are so deadly serious and

2542
01:46:41,540 --> 01:46:39,390
it's the most interesting gee-whiz kind

2543
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:41,550
of thing you can do so enjoy and have

2544
01:46:44,240 --> 01:46:41,970
fun

2545
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:44,250
well that is also one of the issues here

2546
01:46:52,580 --> 01:46:49,050
that I think we're losing the feeling of

2547
01:46:55,340 --> 01:46:52,590
fun of wonderment discovering the

2548
01:46:55,970 --> 01:46:55,350
unknown and it doesn't happen as much as

2549
01:46:58,040 --> 01:46:55,980
it used to

2550
01:47:00,110 --> 01:46:58,050
of course part of that is the way

2551
01:47:02,570 --> 01:47:00,120
society has been so screwed up but that

2552
01:47:05,330 --> 01:47:02,580
takes us to the political world that's a

2553
01:47:08,210 --> 01:47:05,340
place I don't want to enter now we have

2554
01:47:09,710 --> 01:47:08,220
a book here by the way from Paul Kimble

2555
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:09,720
that I want to talk about a little bit

2556
01:47:14,480 --> 01:47:12,330
in our next segment let's do that we

2557
01:47:17,240 --> 01:47:14,490
have a tenth anniversary show of the

2558
01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:17,250
power cast with GOx McKay Paul Kimball

2559
01:47:26,840 --> 01:47:20,130
Jean and Chris Greg Bishop and that

2560
01:47:26,850 --> 01:47:32,590
[Music]

2561
01:47:38,420 --> 01:47:35,660
hi this is James Fox from chasing UFOs

2562
01:47:44,870 --> 01:47:38,430
you're listening to the pair cap the

2563
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:44,880
gold standard of paranormal radio you're

2564
01:47:50,330 --> 01:47:47,250
on the podcast 10th anniversary

2565
01:47:53,270 --> 01:47:50,340
roundtable Paul Kim bögöcs i mcai Greg

2566
01:47:55,210 --> 01:47:53,280
Bishop gene and Chris now Paul couple of

2567
01:47:58,940 --> 01:47:55,220
weeks back you sent me a copy of a book

2568
01:48:01,130 --> 01:47:58,950
the other side of truth subtitle the

2569
01:48:03,800 --> 01:48:01,140
paranormal the art of the imagination

2570
01:48:05,510 --> 01:48:03,810
and the human condition we have a few

2571
01:48:07,880 --> 01:48:05,520
moments here in our final segment tell

2572
01:48:09,920 --> 01:48:07,890
us about the book it's really good buy

2573
01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:09,930
it hey there we go Greg how how's your

2574
01:48:15,710 --> 01:48:13,410
new book coming along um yeah it's it's

2575
01:48:17,810 --> 01:48:15,720
sort of I joke

2576
01:48:19,850 --> 01:48:17,820
no I don't joke you know it's basically

2577
01:48:21,350 --> 01:48:19,860
covers I wrote it in 2012

2578
01:48:24,530 --> 01:48:21,360
because I I sort of had these

2579
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:24,540
experiences and also objective things

2580
01:48:29,150 --> 01:48:26,730
like UFO cases and stuff so it talks

2581
01:48:32,390 --> 01:48:29,160
about synchronicity talks about ghosts

2582
01:48:33,950 --> 01:48:32,400
it talks about reincarnation and sort of

2583
01:48:36,500 --> 01:48:33,960
my views on it but also other people's

2584
01:48:38,330 --> 01:48:36,510
views as well I'm trying to think UFOs

2585
01:48:41,660 --> 01:48:38,340
are in there but the overarching theme

2586
01:48:44,330 --> 01:48:41,670
to me is that all of these things might

2587
01:48:46,670 --> 01:48:44,340
be interrelated and I kind of view it I

2588
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:46,680
tried to do it from an artistic point of

2589
01:48:50,479 --> 01:48:48,570
view because that's what I am an artist

2590
01:48:53,240 --> 01:48:50,489
I guess depends on what the critics say

2591
01:48:56,990 --> 01:48:53,250
but I try to be an artist and whether

2592
01:48:59,180 --> 01:48:57,000
it's making movies or writing fiction or

2593
01:49:00,530 --> 01:48:59,190
comic books or whatever it is whatever

2594
01:49:02,660 --> 01:49:00,540
your meat paintings

2595
01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:02,670
what music whatever it is that you're

2596
01:49:05,660 --> 01:49:03,690
putting out there you're trying to make

2597
01:49:07,790 --> 01:49:05,670
a connection with the audience and so I

2598
01:49:11,060 --> 01:49:07,800
sort of look at all of these things that

2599
01:49:12,710 --> 01:49:11,070
happen and say I think it's possible

2600
01:49:14,930 --> 01:49:12,720
there's something out there which I call

2601
01:49:18,950 --> 01:49:14,940
an advanced non-human intelligence or

2602
01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:18,960
Zoar Grodd that is putting on a show for

2603
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:22,770
us that show is trying to stimulate our

2604
01:49:27,530 --> 01:49:26,010
imaginations so that we can you know

2605
01:49:30,160 --> 01:49:27,540
sort of that sense of wonder so that we

2606
01:49:32,650 --> 01:49:30,170
can imagine new and better futures and

2607
01:49:35,060 --> 01:49:32,660
become more innovative become more

2608
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:35,070
nonlinear thinking but sort of think in

2609
01:49:38,570 --> 01:49:36,690
all sorts of different ways rather than

2610
01:49:40,130 --> 01:49:38,580
giving us the answers there's the nuts

2611
01:49:42,200 --> 01:49:40,140
and bolts thing the nuts and bolts guys

2612
01:49:42,830 --> 01:49:42,210
will tell you that space aliens or

2613
01:49:44,870 --> 01:49:42,840
whomever

2614
01:49:45,859 --> 01:49:44,880
could be God are coming here and they're

2615
01:49:47,240 --> 01:49:45,869
going to give you the answers there's

2616
01:49:49,129 --> 01:49:47,250
the Bible all the answers are in there

2617
01:49:51,109 --> 01:49:49,139
there's Roswell all the answers are from

2618
01:49:52,609 --> 01:49:51,119
the space aliens in there and my thought

2619
01:49:54,919 --> 01:49:52,619
is that it would be much more settled

2620
01:49:56,750 --> 01:49:54,929
than that that they would want us to

2621
01:49:58,939 --> 01:49:56,760
find the answers ourselves to find our

2622
01:50:00,109 --> 01:49:58,949
own path like a parent would you know

2623
01:50:01,729 --> 01:50:00,119
you don't want to do your kids homework

2624
01:50:03,290 --> 01:50:01,739
but you want to help them you want to

2625
01:50:05,180 --> 01:50:03,300
encourage them to take an interest in

2626
01:50:06,530 --> 01:50:05,190
the subject and so when I see all these

2627
01:50:07,669 --> 01:50:06,540
things some of them are frightening

2628
01:50:10,580 --> 01:50:07,679
people say well why would they be

2629
01:50:12,649 --> 01:50:10,590
scaring us well people go to see horror

2630
01:50:14,419 --> 01:50:12,659
films The Exorcist is one of the

2631
01:50:16,550 --> 01:50:14,429
scariest things I've ever seen or

2632
01:50:18,770 --> 01:50:16,560
experienced still scares me and I still

2633
01:50:20,419 --> 01:50:18,780
watch it because I like to be scared

2634
01:50:22,100 --> 01:50:20,429
it's a primal emotion and then it gets

2635
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:22,110
me thinking to me all of these things

2636
01:50:26,629 --> 01:50:24,330
are this sort of intelligence whatever

2637
01:50:28,310 --> 01:50:26,639
it might be interacting with us in

2638
01:50:30,859 --> 01:50:28,320
different ways through different periods

2639
01:50:33,080 --> 01:50:30,869
of time in different guises and trying

2640
01:50:34,910 --> 01:50:33,090
to stimulate our imagination trying to

2641
01:50:37,250 --> 01:50:34,920
encourage us to communicate with each

2642
01:50:38,810 --> 01:50:37,260
other in different ways and to think in

2643
01:50:40,280 --> 01:50:38,820
different ways and so that's sort of

2644
01:50:42,169 --> 01:50:40,290
what the book is all about whether

2645
01:50:43,700 --> 01:50:42,179
anybody believes my theory or accepts my

2646
01:50:45,800 --> 01:50:43,710
theory or finds it interesting or not

2647
01:50:47,750 --> 01:50:45,810
there's some cool ghost stories in there

2648
01:50:49,430 --> 01:50:47,760
and some cool synchronicity stories so

2649
01:50:51,470 --> 01:50:49,440
those are fun too you don't have to

2650
01:50:53,390 --> 01:50:51,480
accept the theory to enjoy the stories I

2651
01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:53,400
guess now for those who read the book

2652
01:50:57,379 --> 01:50:55,170
it's a pretty quick read we're talking

2653
01:51:00,560 --> 01:50:57,389
about something that's 230 pages and

2654
01:51:02,510 --> 01:51:00,570
some-odd what can they take away from it

2655
01:51:04,520 --> 01:51:02,520
that maybe they didn't know before they

2656
01:51:06,439 --> 01:51:04,530
got into it that I should probably never

2657
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:06,449
write another book again I don't know I

2658
01:51:09,620 --> 01:51:07,650
don't know if I could write another book

2659
01:51:11,570 --> 01:51:09,630
again like that I think I sort of used

2660
01:51:12,890 --> 01:51:11,580
everything you know what I think here's

2661
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:12,900
what they could take away did somebody

2662
01:51:18,470 --> 01:51:15,530
like me who had a reputation as being

2663
01:51:20,839 --> 01:51:18,480
still do I guess confrontational and

2664
01:51:22,280 --> 01:51:20,849
cranky and close some people would have

2665
01:51:24,979 --> 01:51:22,290
said close-minded which was never

2666
01:51:27,589 --> 01:51:24,989
actually true but you know very would

2667
01:51:29,450 --> 01:51:27,599
become much more open-minded if they

2668
01:51:31,669 --> 01:51:29,460
actually go out and do these kinds of

2669
01:51:33,109 --> 01:51:31,679
things themselves and that gets back to

2670
01:51:35,570 --> 01:51:33,119
what I've said already which is you know

2671
01:51:38,629 --> 01:51:35,580
be more light-hearted about it and be

2672
01:51:41,300 --> 01:51:38,639
more open-minded and be willing to be

2673
01:51:44,060 --> 01:51:41,310
skeptical but also be willing to accept

2674
01:51:45,919 --> 01:51:44,070
what happens to you and be amazed by it

2675
01:51:47,780 --> 01:51:45,929
and I think that can lead you to some

2676
01:51:49,609 --> 01:51:47,790
very interesting places but I think you

2677
01:51:51,109 --> 01:51:49,619
actually have to do it yourself and with

2678
01:51:53,959 --> 01:51:51,119
you know friends whether it was for me

2679
01:51:56,430 --> 01:51:53,969
Holly or Greg and Walter or or whomever

2680
01:51:57,840 --> 01:51:56,440
try and have those experiences

2681
01:52:00,270 --> 01:51:57,850
than just sort of sit and read other

2682
01:52:02,970 --> 01:52:00,280
people's books par develop and fine-tune

2683
01:52:05,130 --> 01:52:02,980
your BS meter yeah that helps too I mean

2684
01:52:07,050 --> 01:52:05,140
like I said there were cases that we

2685
01:52:09,390 --> 01:52:07,060
investigated for ghost cases that we

2686
01:52:11,310 --> 01:52:09,400
didn't air because we found that people

2687
01:52:12,780 --> 01:52:11,320
were either lying or that the stories

2688
01:52:14,700 --> 01:52:12,790
were explainable and then that doesn't

2689
01:52:16,470 --> 01:52:14,710
make for good television particularly if

2690
01:52:19,650 --> 01:52:16,480
we find out people are lying that wasn't

2691
01:52:21,450 --> 01:52:19,660
our interest in exposing Liars so you

2692
01:52:23,910 --> 01:52:21,460
just kind of great that goes over there

2693
01:52:26,370 --> 01:52:23,920
so you know a healthy grain of salt but

2694
01:52:28,229 --> 01:52:26,380
I would say also be prepared to toss

2695
01:52:30,420 --> 01:52:28,239
that grain of salt over your shoulder if

2696
01:52:32,010 --> 01:52:30,430
you run into a situation where you know

2697
01:52:34,470 --> 01:52:32,020
that sort of superstition might come in

2698
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:34,480
handy very briefly here before we kind

2699
01:52:39,270 --> 01:52:36,730
of start wrapping up whatever happened

2700
01:52:40,979 --> 01:52:39,280
to Holly after you did that ghost TV

2701
01:52:42,959 --> 01:52:40,989
show not guilty

2702
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:42,969
sorry she lives in Vancouver now she

2703
01:52:47,939 --> 01:52:45,010
moved to Vancouver still does some

2704
01:52:49,950 --> 01:52:47,949
acting and I actually recommended her I

2705
01:52:51,470 --> 01:52:49,960
was contacted by a guy who's looking at

2706
01:52:54,270 --> 01:52:51,480
doing another ghost paranormal

2707
01:52:57,000 --> 01:52:54,280
investigation show wanted a female host

2708
01:52:58,979 --> 01:52:57,010
or co-host and I recommended Holly and

2709
01:53:01,800 --> 01:52:58,989
one other Kelly Connelly too which is

2710
01:53:03,330 --> 01:53:01,810
the Paracon person from Liverpool and I

2711
01:53:04,590 --> 01:53:03,340
said look I know you only need one but

2712
01:53:06,060 --> 01:53:04,600
you should interview these two people

2713
01:53:08,010 --> 01:53:06,070
and then figure out which one works best

2714
01:53:09,510 --> 01:53:08,020
for you because they're both great so

2715
01:53:11,729 --> 01:53:09,520
yeah hanging out with Holly was one of

2716
01:53:13,320 --> 01:53:11,739
the great experiences in my life and

2717
01:53:15,840 --> 01:53:13,330
Greg was lucky enough to meet her too

2718
01:53:17,729 --> 01:53:15,850
she's just a ton of fun so she's still

2719
01:53:19,530 --> 01:53:17,739
interested in the subject but you know

2720
01:53:21,240 --> 01:53:19,540
keeps a pretty low profile well I think

2721
01:53:23,160 --> 01:53:21,250
after you've gone through this you can

2722
01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:23,170
either stay with it or get on with your

2723
01:53:27,600 --> 01:53:25,930
life and a lot of people are sort of

2724
01:53:29,820 --> 01:53:27,610
want to get on with their lives but the

2725
01:53:31,500 --> 01:53:29,830
rest of us are kind of stuck Paul I've

2726
01:53:33,900 --> 01:53:31,510
got the impression that you kind of

2727
01:53:35,459 --> 01:53:33,910
drift in and out of it you're happy to

2728
01:53:38,850 --> 01:53:35,469
get out of it but then you're back in it

2729
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:38,860
again is that my feeling being correct I

2730
01:53:42,720 --> 01:53:40,930
don't know if you're ever out or you're

2731
01:53:44,729 --> 01:53:42,730
ever in it's kind of like Spock right

2732
01:53:46,110 --> 01:53:44,739
Leonard Nimoy wrote a book I'm something

2733
01:53:48,030 --> 01:53:46,120
he would say I'm not Spock and then

2734
01:53:50,100 --> 01:53:48,040
eventually said I am Spock and he came

2735
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:50,110
to grips with it I've never considered

2736
01:53:53,490 --> 01:53:52,449
myself a ufologist and for years I kind

2737
01:53:55,050 --> 01:53:53,500
of looked for a term

2738
01:53:56,580 --> 01:53:55,060
I always said look it's just a subject

2739
01:53:58,979 --> 01:53:56,590
I'm interested in like history and music

2740
01:54:00,810 --> 01:53:58,989
and all sorts of other things and if I

2741
01:54:02,790 --> 01:54:00,820
was to use a term now I'd go back to the

2742
01:54:04,470 --> 01:54:02,800
very beginning and I'd say 40 and you

2743
01:54:06,540 --> 01:54:04,480
know it's not just UFOs it's not just

2744
01:54:08,850 --> 01:54:06,550
ghosts not just whatever learn the

2745
01:54:10,109 --> 01:54:08,860
novelist or an anomalous actually

2746
01:54:12,209 --> 01:54:10,119
anomalous sound sexy

2747
01:54:15,209 --> 01:54:12,219
so I'll go with that either one of those

2748
01:54:17,700 --> 01:54:15,219
two terms where you take a holistic very

2749
01:54:20,669 --> 01:54:17,710
broad-based approach to what you could

2750
01:54:22,859 --> 01:54:20,679
generally call the paranormal so yeah

2751
01:54:24,330 --> 01:54:22,869
I'm always in it it's just you know your

2752
01:54:25,979 --> 01:54:24,340
interest goes up or it goes down

2753
01:54:28,200 --> 01:54:25,989
depending on what else it is that you're

2754
01:54:29,700 --> 01:54:28,210
doing we only have like 20 seconds for

2755
01:54:32,100 --> 01:54:29,710
the answers and the rest of your Greg

2756
01:54:36,180 --> 01:54:32,110
Bishop you've been in and out are always

2757
01:54:38,580 --> 01:54:36,190
in I guess in and out but mostly in it's

2758
01:54:40,140 --> 01:54:38,590
a it just it kind of varies with you

2759
01:54:42,839 --> 01:54:40,150
know what I've exposed to and who I'm

2760
01:54:43,979 --> 01:54:42,849
talking to and all that I talk about it

2761
01:54:46,439 --> 01:54:43,989
a lot in the book that I want to release

2762
01:54:48,330 --> 01:54:46,449
in about a week so there'll be more

2763
01:54:51,240 --> 01:54:48,340
details than that and we'll have you

2764
01:54:53,839 --> 01:54:51,250
back to talk about the book cogs in or

2765
01:54:56,939 --> 01:54:53,849
out what's going on with you I'm

2766
01:54:59,280 --> 01:54:56,949
definitely in and I'd have one quick

2767
01:55:01,620 --> 01:54:59,290
piece of advice for someone that was

2768
01:55:04,820 --> 01:55:01,630
very new to the field and I would just

2769
01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:04,830
tell them to think that of analogy and

2770
01:55:10,740 --> 01:55:08,050
like panning for gold and that is

2771
01:55:13,560 --> 01:55:10,750
basically in the field you're going to

2772
01:55:16,080 --> 01:55:13,570
be persisting through lots of great lots

2773
01:55:18,450 --> 01:55:16,090
of dirt for a long time before you get a

2774
01:55:21,720 --> 01:55:18,460
you know a nugget of gold but they do

2775
01:55:23,669 --> 01:55:21,730
exist and if you just be patient you

2776
01:55:26,070 --> 01:55:23,679
know you'll come across them and just

2777
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:26,080
ignore the grit wait for the Nuggets

2778
01:55:32,270 --> 01:55:29,770
Chris fifteen seconds in and out well

2779
01:55:35,700 --> 01:55:32,280
reluctantly in but always alongside

2780
01:55:39,330 --> 01:55:35,710
hovering over you know looking up from

2781
01:55:42,149 --> 01:55:39,340
underground I try to stay separate from

2782
01:55:44,640 --> 01:55:42,159
the the field in terms of the you know

2783
01:55:47,339 --> 01:55:44,650
the the standard rank-and-file and tried

2784
01:55:48,839 --> 01:55:47,349
to be more of a social observer as well

2785
01:55:50,790 --> 01:55:48,849
as a field investigating and being you

2786
01:55:53,939 --> 01:55:50,800
know totally immersed so I would say in

2787
01:55:55,830 --> 01:55:53,949
but always alongside well I didn't know

2788
01:56:00,359 --> 01:55:55,840
I was in the field until the power cast

2789
01:56:02,609 --> 01:56:00,369
started in 2006 it's now 2016 so what

2790
01:56:04,140 --> 01:56:02,619
happens next well we'll have ten more

2791
01:56:06,390 --> 01:56:04,150
years of the power cast and maybe a

2792
01:56:09,359 --> 01:56:06,400
special episode five years from now

2793
01:56:11,430 --> 01:56:09,369
let's see how it works out Paul Kimball

2794
01:56:14,220 --> 01:56:11,440
please tell our listeners where they can

2795
01:56:16,140 --> 01:56:14,230
find more the stuff you do um the best

2796
01:56:19,080 --> 01:56:16,150
place to look would be my personal

2797
01:56:22,379 --> 01:56:19,090
website I guess Paul Andrew Kimball all

2798
01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:22,389
one word.com and some of its paranormal

2799
01:56:25,320 --> 01:56:23,650
but a lot of its food and

2800
01:56:26,910 --> 01:56:25,330
Travel and other stuff but if you sift

2801
01:56:28,860 --> 01:56:26,920
through the other stuff there's some

2802
01:56:33,060 --> 01:56:28,870
paranormal stuff there too Greg Bishop

2803
01:56:38,010 --> 01:56:33,070
place is right Oh Mysterio so calm ra di

2804
01:56:40,260 --> 01:56:38,020
om is te RI Oso calm that's where my

2805
01:56:40,890 --> 01:56:40,270
show is and announcements and things

2806
01:56:43,050 --> 01:56:40,900
like that

2807
01:56:44,399 --> 01:56:43,060
Chris O'Brien has our strange planet

2808
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:44,409
calm hasn't been updated in a while

2809
01:56:48,899 --> 01:56:46,810
we're pushing him to kind of bring

2810
01:56:50,760 --> 01:56:48,909
things up to date it could also find us

2811
01:56:54,060 --> 01:56:50,770
on Twitter look for the power cast look

2812
01:56:57,750 --> 01:56:54,070
for a pair of power cast fan clubs on

2813
01:56:59,669 --> 01:56:57,760
Facebook look for the power cast Plus

2814
01:57:03,240 --> 01:56:59,679
featuring the ad-free version of the

2815
01:57:05,189 --> 01:57:03,250
show after the para cast podcast this

2816
01:57:07,740 --> 01:57:05,199
week we feature a special double length

2817
01:57:10,649 --> 01:57:07,750
episode of after the para cast featuring

2818
01:57:14,370 --> 01:57:10,659
Paul Greg and GOx

2819
01:57:18,990 --> 01:57:14,380
don't miss it after the para cast go to

2820
01:57:22,020 --> 01:57:19,000
plus dr. power cast calm PL us dot the

2821
01:57:22,919 --> 01:57:22,030
para cast calm with simple signup

2822
01:57:26,459 --> 01:57:22,929
instructions

2823
01:57:29,130 --> 01:57:26,469
Paul Kimball GOx Makai Greg Bishop thank

2824
01:57:31,500 --> 01:57:29,140
you all for joining us this week on the

2825
01:57:34,020 --> 01:57:31,510
power cast oh thanks for having me gene

2826
01:57:36,540 --> 01:57:34,030
good to be back an honor to be part of

2827
01:57:38,430 --> 01:57:36,550
this ten years team yes ditto to what

2828
01:57:44,320 --> 01:57:38,440
God says thank you so much gene and

2829
01:57:50,069 --> 01:57:46,819
[Music]

2830
01:57:53,220 --> 01:57:50,079
the para cast featuring Jim Steinberg

2831
01:57:56,209 --> 01:57:53,230
and Christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

2832
01:57:59,970 --> 01:57:56,219
presentation of making the impossible